Advocating for Your Loved Ones During a Medical Crisis – with guest Saundra Rogers

Pam Harper (00:00): Our guest today, Saundra Rogers, shares the keys to leading yourself and others as you advocate for your loved ones during a medical crisis. Join us for episode 219 of Growth Ignites Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper.

Chris Curran (00:23): This episode is brought to you by Business Advancement, Incorporated -- enabling successful leaders and companies to accelerate to their next level of success. On the web at businessadvance.com. And now, here's Pam and Scott.

Pam Harper (00:40): Thanks Chris. And welcome everyone. I'm Pam Harper, founding partner and CEO of Business Advancement Incorporated, and sitting right across from me as always is my business partner and husband, Scott Harper.

Scott Harper (00:54): Hi everybody. It's great to have you with us. And as always, our purpose here is to spark new insights, inspiration, and immediately useful ideas to help visionary leaders accelerate themselves -- and of course their companies -- to their next level of game-changing innovation, transformation and growth.

Scott Harper (01:11): Now, Pam, one of the things that we've seen in the CEOs and other top leaders we call "growth igniters" is that they are whole people; they embrace their humanity in both their business and their personal lives.

Pam Harper (01:23): That's right.

Scott Harper (01:24): And one of the most human situations I can think of is advocating for loved ones during a medical crisis.

Pam Harper (01:31): Absolutely.

Scott Harper (01:32): It's hard, and no matter how sure of ourselves we feel in business, it's natural to feel extremely unsure of how to support our loved ones when they can't speak for themselves and we don't know what we don't know.

Pam Harper (01:46): Yes, under these tough circumstances, we need to lead ourselves and others to think differently and act in new ways as we advocate on their behalf. That's why we're talking today with Saundra Rogers, a speaker, educator, and storyteller. She shares her experiences as the mother of a COVID 19 patient in desperate need of medical care during a peak in hospitalizations in 2020. She's on a mission to teach others to advocate for their loved ones during a medical crisis. And she's dedicated to being a voice for the voiceless.

Pam Harper (02:24): Saundra is a veteran teacher of English language learners. She graduated from Boston university school of education and holds a master's in applied linguistics from Georgetown University. She's currently a doctoral candidate at Nova Southeastern university where she studies educational leadership. You can read more about Saundra's background by going to GrowthIgnitersRadio.com, episode 219, and scrolling down to her bio. Saundra, welcome to growth Igniter's radio.

Saundra Rogers (02:56): Thank you for having me.

Pam Harper (02:59): Oh, we're so glad you could join us. And this is such an incredibly important topic. Before we get into talking about being an advocate for your loved one, let's talk a little bit about you. You've said that you're on a mission to teach others how to advocate for their loved ones during a medical crisis. And that stuck with me. Why is this especially important to you?

Saundra Rogers (03:26): One of the reasons is because I'm an African American woman, and I know that people of color and the differently abled sometimes have poorer medical outcomes. We often get treated differently by the medical community, and it's important that we educate ourselves and that we're willing to stand up and be a voice for our friends and our loved ones during a medical crisis. I had a brother who was hearing impaired. He was deaf and I grew up advocating for him. As he got older, he had significant health issues. And there were many times when I saw medical staff trying to ignore or mistreat him.

Saundra Rogers (04:04): For example, he was in the hospital after having a heart attack and he was given some orange juice. My brother didn't want the orange juice. He asked for apple juice. He wrote a note to the nurse asking for apple juice. For some reason, she was really frustrated and she threw the orange juice carton at him and hit him with it. My brother texted me to come to the hospital. I was already on my way to his room. When I got to the nurse's station, I heard the nurse talking to the other nurses and laughing about how she threw the orange juice at him. She thought that since he didn't speak, she could get away with it. And after checking in with my brother, I reported her.

Pam Harper (04:44): So you were really grounded in this. And you know, there are so many other types of situations. In addition to what you're describing, we've seen that whether you're caring for a loved one or advocating for a loved one, who's a parent or a dear friend or a child, we know you've had experiences with all of this. All of us as human beings are at one time faced with this; but I know that your particular story has particular impact and it was the story of Nelson. Maybe you can describe it very briefly. What was that situation?

Saundra Rogers (05:28): Well, I met Nelson when he was nine years old. He was a student in my class when I was teaching in Washington DC. At the time he just arrived from El Salvador. He was wild and rambunctious. He was always in trouble, you know, always into something, but I could tell that he was intelligent and he was a natural athlete. He was always moving, always talking. And unfortunately he was removed from his home and put into foster care. I became his foster mother and I raised him. He grew up to be a very helpful, thoughtful man. He had boundless energy and a big heart, and he was a teacher's assistant in a bilingual school in Washington, DC. He was great with kids.

Saundra Rogers (06:10): He played rugby and several other sports. He was very athletic. He was funny and friendly, responsible. I was so proud of him right after his 36th birthday. He got diagnosed with COVID oh 19. Uh, he rarely got sick, but when his oxygen level dropped, he called his doctor and they said an ambulance for him. He called me while he was waiting for the EMTs. And I waited all night to hear from him. The next morning I got a call from the hospital. They wanted me to pick him up. And I thought that was strange because I knew he had an active case of COVID 19. At first they wouldn't tell me his diagnosis. When I insisted, they told me that he had COVID pneumonia and was in respiratory failure. He hadn't been there 24 hours and they were sending him home to die alone.

Saundra Rogers (07:00): I knew in that instant that I was would have to fight for him. I refused to pick him up from the hospital and I insisted that they treat him. And I started asking for people's names. He got worse, and I got my iPad. I started an electronic notebook for him. And I talked to the doctors every single day, sometimes twice a day to make sure that I knew what was going on. I couldn't visit in the hospital. Right. Eventually he had to be transferred to a hospital with ECMO machine, which is advanced life support. Like I said, I spoke to someone on the medical team every single day. And at one point they wanted to discontinue life support, and I refused to give my consent for that.

Pam Harper (07:43): Let me ask you Saundra; do you feel like they were giving you good updates then? I don't mean good. As in, you were happy about the updates, but that enough information they were giving you, uh, enough information, a plan for how they were going to treat him.

Saundra Rogers (08:03): I definitely feel like I had good information and enough information, but I also felt like the pressure was coming from someplace else because he he'd been intubated and he was on the ECMO machine. So he couldn't speak, he was unconscious, he was put in a medical induced coma, but every time they brought him out of the coma, he was still neurologically intact And so that made me feel like he, he still could heal and that there was a good that there was a chance that he might be able to recover if they continue treating him.

Pam Harper (08:40): So you were making your own assessment at the same time as the doctors were giving you their assessment. So you were trying to figure out your own understanding of what was possible,

Saundra Rogers (08:53): Right. Especially since when they would say that he like he did, for example, have a couple of brain bleeds. And when they said often, "you know, this might be it, he might not recover from this," and then he would recover. So I honestly felt like he needed more time.

Pam Harper (09:10): So Saundra, I know that this story of Nelson was covered by the Washington Post. How did that come about?

Saundra Rogers (09:19): When I refused to give my consent, I realized that I would need to put pressure on the hospital and that would take, going to the media and getting a lawyer. But I didn't, I couldn't afford a lawyer. I tried on my own to get an attorney and I couldn't get anyone to agree to go up against the hospital either. They represented the hospital or they were doing business with them or something. There was some kind of problem, but a friend of mine called me and said, "you know, you need to go to the local news,"and she called them and asked if they were interested in the story. They called me and they interviewed me and I got on a local news station and then other stations started calling. And then from there, the Washington post called me.

Pam Harper (10:05): That's amazing

Scott Harper (10:06): Sadly, you've told us that Nelson did not recover, which is a tragedy. And we're so sorry for your loss.

Saundra Rogers (10:17): Thank you.

Scott Harper (10:18): And you've also said that this has given you purpose to get out to other people and help them understand that no matter who they are, no matter what the situation, they aren't helpless when they're caring for loved ones in, in a medical crisis. And we're going to talk more about that in a little bit, but just tell us a little bit about the core of that idea: You're not helpless when you're caring for people you care about.

Saundra Rogers (10:52): Well, I think that it's normal to be so worried when your loved one is critically ill, that you get paralyzed with fear, or you get dependent on the medical team to make all of the decisions. But that's precisely the time when you need to act. That is when you need to find all that you can about the illness about possible treatments. And when you talk to the doctors or nurses, you need to be able to understand what they're saying, to make it easy for them to talk to you. So of course, you know, he's my son. I loved him. I was terrified. People were not making it all the time or having terrible long COVID symptoms. But I had to push my fear aside and figure out what do I need to do to help him every single day and deal with every single crisis or situation that came up.

Pam Harper (11:47): And that takes a special kind of mindset. And that's what we're going to talk about in our next section. So we're going to take a quick break right now. And when we come back, we'll dig deeper with speaker educator and storyteller Saundra Rogers about the mindset it takes to successfully advocate for a loved one in a medical crisis. Stay with us...

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Pam Harper (13:07): Welcome back to Growth Ignites Radio with Pam Harper. That's me and Scott Harper today. Scott and I are speaking with Saundra Rogers, speaker, educator, and storyteller about the mindset it takes to successfully advocate for a loved one in a medical crisis. Saundra, tell us how people can find out more about you and your keynote.

Saundra Rogers (13:32): Please contact me at Saundrasandrarogers.com, and I'm happy to answer any emails and any questions deliver my keynote and do workshops about medical advocacy.

Pam Harper (13:49): Okay. And you can also get a link by going to Growth Ignites Radio.com episode 219, and scrolling down to resources. In the first part of our conversation, the first segment we were talking with Saundra about what drove her to become a healthcare advocate and the special mindset that it takes to make this happen. So let's dig deeper into the importance of developing an advocacy mindset, because when you're helping a loved one through a medical crisis, no matter how bold you are under any other circumstance, it can be easy to lose that or to feel almost like you're a deer in the headlights. Saundra, what do you think?

Saundra Rogers (14:39): Well, I am a born worrier. That's what I do. When the situation is good or bad, I worry about it. But when it's a crisis, especially a medical crisis, I have to push my worry aside and get into problem solving mode. For example, one of the last things that he said to me was that the hospital staff was treating him like he didn't speak English. Like I said, he was from El Salvador and it was, you know, he was Latino, but he was a balanced bilingual. He could speak and read and write in both languages , but he was very angry about the way that he was being treated in the hospital. I had to talk to the people on the medical team about treating him with respect. He also told me that he was being connected to an apparatus and told the lie still and not move for six hours.

Saundra Rogers (15:32): And no one told him what the machine was or what was going on. When I called the doctor about it, the doctor didn't know what I was talking about. And I insisted that he find out what machining was attached to and called me back. The doctor was a little rude, which normally I do not stand for but I had to put that aside, put my personal feelings aside, let it go and get my question answered. So when he called me back, he told me that, you know, he was attached to a CPAP machine. And I said, well, there's no reason that he can't sit up or get water is there. And he said, no. So he, he wasn't being given good directions or given information. I said, please have someone explain to him that it's a CPAP machine. He can sit up, he can move around because lime still for six hours without being able to get water or anything.

Scott Harper (16:25): That's rough. So Saundra, you mentioned that you had to put your irritation aside and, and, and so on. We know other people who have had to help take care of loved ones, really capable executives. They're used to being in command in that situation. Judgment just went right out the window. And as you said, people get frightened. They get upset. They get worried. No, I'm not a medical expert. They know what they're doing, blah, blah, blah. What does it take? How, how did you find it in yourself and how can others find it in themselves to develop this mindset of advocacy and of agency can, we can do what it takes to move things forward the best we can in spite of the obstacles. H how do you develop that mindset?

Saundra Rogers (17:18): I think you have to, if it's really, really difficult for you to switch gears, then St start with something small like asking who's on the medical team. There's no reason for them not to tell you that, finding out what kind of physicians are on the medical team, who can you talk to every day about your loved one's progress. And I think that as you start asking questions that they might not mind answering, then you'll kind of hit your stride and find your way into asking more difficult questions.

Saundra Rogers (17:56): For example, when I wanted to know what medications he was on, I always asked that question. And the nurse I was told to speak to didn't want to tell me. And I had to figure out a way to get her to tell me. So I asked her, well, if your son was in the hospital, a COVID 19 and respiratory failure, wouldn't you want to know is what is medications? He was on. She said, of course, I said, well, you know, I'm a mother too. I want to know what you're giving him. And then I said, when would be a good time for me to call back?

Scott Harper (18:31): Ah, so creating a sense of connection with people as medical professionals as people, and not just , you know, medical professionals that, that can carry a lot of power,

Pam Harper (18:44): It breaks them out of the pattern. Right.

Saundra Rogers (18:47): Right. And also she said, you know, the best thing to do is let me eat dinner first and then back in an hour,

Scott Harper (18:53): OK. You're, you're a human being too.

Pam Harper (18:56): Right. If you're hungry, you're not going to give much information.

Saundra Rogers (18:59): And then she very painstakingly went through every medication and I wrote everything down. It took a little while, but we knew that was going to be a while. And then I shared that the list with a friend of mine, who's a physician. And she said, you know, I do not. What I do not see is an antiviral medication that they're giving COVID patients. And then I called the doctor back and I said, you know, does he meet the protocol for this medication? Do you have it? And he says, yes, he meet the protocol. Yes, we have it. And I said, well, then why isn't he on it?

Pam Harper (19:34): And what'd he say?

Saundra Rogers (19:35): He said, "I don't know, it's an oversight. I'll take care of that right away."

Pam Harper (19:41): All right. That's interesting. And I can imagine just the way you are -- that you are the kind of person that exudes, caring that you care for people. And as you're saying, you see them as people and not just as these medical establishment types.

Scott Harper (20:01): Even when they're bugging the hell out of you.

Saundra Rogers (20:03): Right. Absolutely.

Pam Harper (20:06): That goes a long way. So going along with this, how did you decide the most effective way to make your voice heard? You know, or how does one decide this? Because there are a lot of different ways that seem like you were very clear about what needed to be done and not everybody knows what's possible in these kinds of situations.

Saundra Rogers (20:31): I kept my mind on the outcome that I wanted, which was for him to come home. And then what does it needs to happen for him to be able to come home? For example? I wasn't positive, but when I found out that they were doing lung transplants for COVID patients and they brought up, could they explore lung transplants? I said, absolutely. Yes And then I, I started to find out more and more about them so that I could have intelligent conversations about them. And I knew what was going to be expected. Something that happened was that the first institution that, that they asked about the transplant turned him down and I asked them to, I said, well, ask someone else. And they're like, well, our policy is to only ask one institution.

Pam Harper (21:21): Oh, our policy is right.

Saundra Rogers (21:23): And still, I was like, "well, that's not a good policy," but I talked to people and I kept asking questions. And I found out that there was a website that had all the institutions, that had ECMO machines and that did lung transplants. So I called my friends and I asked them and my family and I asked them, they said, what can I help you do? I said, you know, let's split this list up and call these institutions and find out if they'll take you.

Pam Harper (21:55): Oh, wow. So having your community of friends and family was part of how you were making your voice heard too.

Saundra Rogers (22:06): It was very important to ask for help and to listen to people's ideas and to keep an open mind about things. I didn't know how I was going to manage, because with one place that we were looking at, you have to be there for two years away from home. And you know, I didn't think that I was going to be able to do it, but in talking to my husband, we came up with a plan so that I could be gone for two years and we would still, you know, be able to keep our house. So there's a lot of planning. And like I said, keeping an open mind, but really focusing on what what's the outcome that you want.

Saundra Rogers (22:46): I had the interview for the transplant and I found out that you had to have a second person. It couldn't just be me. There had to be two people there to supervise the visits and, and everything during the transplant. So I called a relative that lived in, that, lived in that town. And it was a long shot, you know, we didn't, we weren't that close, but she said, absolutely, of course I'll help, and I'll get my community to help. So even though, even when I thought there was no chance to get this done, people came together for me to help me solve those problems.

Pam Harper (23:23): You know, that's so, so true. I mean, it was, it was the time we're talking about -- 2020, early on in COVID. Yes. And so, especially then, I mean, it's ambiguous now. It was very ambiguous then. And so what you're describing are a lot of the characteristics of people that we think of leaders that we think of as growth Igniters, who have that expansive thinking and curiosity, which you were doing a lot of research on and bringing together people in a way in a community in a way that could really move together towards that outcome

Scott Harper (24:01): When there's a lot of ambiguity and a lot of unknown. And that's, that was a rough time. Rough time. In addition to bringing your community together, uh, you've talked to us about gatekeepers. People who have information, who you need to open up to you, you, you told us a little bit about that. Are there any other secrets that you can tell people about getting through gatekeepers, to people who actually make decisions or have information that you need?

Saundra Rogers (24:33): Well, before I had the attorney, we had to let the hospital administrators know that we did not want to discontinue life support. And we felt that there was, that was almost impossible because there were no visitors, a lot in the hospital. But you could go into the lobby area. They wouldn't let you pass security. So my cousin and a couple of other people that he knew wrote a, a letter saying, wrote a handwritten note saying that we do not want life support discontinued. And they just handed it to a nurse and nurse didn't know them, but they said, you know, make sure that the hospital administration gets this. So the hospital administration did get it. And that was the first time we got a reprieve for five days from when they were going to remove the life support. Oh my and during that time was when I went to the media and the story got on social media and an organization contacted me and provided me with an attorney.

Saundra Rogers (25:31): And once the attorney was on board, he was able to get in contact with a hospital administrator that night and got it pushed back another 14 days. So I think it's a matter of getting attention and putting, getting your voice, heard, putting pressure on them, letting them know that you're serious. And I'm sure that when the hospital administrators ask someone on the team, "Who's this Saundra Rogers person," you know, I'm sure that they were able to say, you know, she's organized, she under, she has a good idea about what's going on. You know, she's been here and she's very supportive of him. I don't, I mean, they probably said other things too.

Pam Harper (26:14): Okay. But you know what you, what you're saying, Saundra, what I also hear is that you understood that to get around gatekeepers. You had to look at all kinds of ways of communicating too. It wasn't just you standing there saying, let me, let us do this. But rather it was having other people writing things down, talking other people, representing you. So it takes a lot of voices for a voice to be heard, doesn't it?

Saundra Rogers (26:45): It does. And one thing that was really important that happened was the school that he, that my son worked at Mary McLeod, Bethune Day Academy, they scheduled a, a vigil, uh, prayer vigil for him, which actually turned into a protest when they found out that they wanted to remove the life support. So they went down there and protested, and they were joined by some of his friends from UDC and family. So now people are out there in front of the hospital with signs and protesting. And interestingly enough security hospital security tried to make them disband and leave, but they refused. And then, uh, they called the police on them and the police let them finish their protest. And when they, and when we found out that the hospital had given us more time, then the police actually let them have a victory walk around the, around the hospital grounds. So you'll never know where you're going to get support.

Saundra Rogers (27:47): And that was covered by, the media English and in Spanish. So it actually became an international story. Wow.

Pam Harper (27:54): Wow. Saundra, that's quite a story. Our hearts go out to you, because this was something that was incredibly hard. Thank you for sharing this part of the story. We're going to take another quick break. And when we come back, Scott and I will speak more with speaker educator and story teller, Saundra Rogers, about immediately useful ideas for advocating for your loved one in a medical crisis. Stay with us...

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Pam Harper (29:14): Welcome back to Growth Ignites Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper. Over the last two segments. Scott and I have been speaking with speaker educator and storyteller, Saundra Rogers, about the mindset it takes to successfully advocate for a loved one in a medical crisis. Saundra, remind us how people can find out more about you and your keynote.

Saundra Rogers (29:36): Please contact me at Saundra@Saundrarogers.com. And I will get back to you answer any of your questions about my keynote giving workshops and delivering my keynote speech.

Pam Harper (29:49): We've heard Saundra speak, and she is compelling. It's profound, and we encourage you to reach out to her. You can also find out more information and links to this episode by going to GrowthIgnitersRadio.com, episode 219, and scroll down to resources.

Pam Harper (30:09): So Saundra, this is the part of our episode where we talk about immediately useful ideas. And in this case, it's about advocating for a loved one who's going through a medical crisis. Let's start with an immediately useful idea for deciding on the best person to communicate with a medical team, whether it's a family member or personal friend. You've had a lot of people helping you. How do you make these decisions?

Saundra Rogers (30:38): Well, I was the person that he chose before they intubated him. He was asked "who do you want to make your medical decisions?" And he gave my name. But if you have to choose, I would suggest you choose the person in your family or a family friend that has the best communication skills, note taking abilities, listening, and people skills. They need to be available to talk to the doctors and nurses and to report out to family members in a calm and organized way.

Pam Harper (31:08): That makes sense. I think that it's important to recognize that it isn't always the most apparent person. Like sometimes it may be a family member as opposed to yourself

Scott Harper (31:22): Or a friend or even another professional. And the point you made about people skills, is so important. From the stories you've told us, it's clear that you had people skills that made you an advocate instead of an adversary. And that's so important. Because if you're making people angry at you and you're letting your anger take over, that's not nearly as effective as if you work through it and say, "what's the outcome?" As you said so important. Now let's go to another immediately useful idea. How can you ensure that whoever's advocating for the person has the ability to make the decisions? If the loved one can't speak for themselves.

Saundra Rogers (32:13): Well, I know that it's difficult, but it's best to have these conversations about what you want to happen in a crisis before the crisis happens. Talk to your family. Talk to your friends. Do you want heroic measures taken? It's a great idea to write down who you want to make your medical decisions and put it in a place where your loved ones can find it. If you're hospitalized and you can't speak. If you do find yourself hospitalized, then ask for a pencil and paper in the hospital and write down how to get into your phone, how to get into your computer, indicate who you want to make decisions for you, share your medical history so that there are no surprises or mysteries to figure out.

Scott Harper (32:57): That's such good advice, Saundra and I want to build on that. Many of our listeners do know, but some may not know, that it's possible to get an advanced medical directive.

Saundra Rogers (33:11): Absolutely.

Scott Harper (33:13): Who is my medical power of attorney who can make decisions for me, if I cannot? As you said, what measures do I want to take at end of life? Getting all of these things prepared in advance makes it so much easier than when it really hits you. When my father was at the end of his life, uh, I was fortunate that he had already done that. I was his medical power of attorney and I could talk to the physicians. Whereas if he hadn't made those arrangements, it would've been so much harder.

Saundra Rogers (33:50): Absolutely.

Scott Harper (33:51): That's excellent advice.

Pam Harper (33:55): Let's go on the third immediately useful idea. And in this case, it's just knowing the types of records that an advocate should track. You seem to have a pretty good idea of it.

Saundra Rogers (34:09): I would say that the first thing you want to do is you want to ask for the diagnosis, the prognosis and the treatment plan. You need to know those three things. You need to find out what kind of doctors are on the team, because they'll have different specialties and they'll come at the situation from different perspectives. You want to know how many days does the team work and what day does the team change? So if they work for seven days, that means on that eighth day, you want to be dealing with a whole new group of people and you have to start over again with making those connections. There might be five teams. There may be 15 teams. You need to know how many different times you're going to have to introduce yourself and let them know what you know, and that you're the person that they need to deal with.

Saundra Rogers (34:59): I think it's really important that you build a relationship with each team. So they will want to talk to you. You should talk to the bedside nurse in the evenings to find out if the patient met their goals for the day, they set goals every day. And you want to know if those goals were met. You want to find out if you could have video calls with the patient after visiting hours, many hospitals have iPads set up so that you can speak to the patient from home. Definitely want to ask for a list of medications and ask them to let you know when the medications change. That'll give you an indication of how much pain they're in and what problems they're trying to solve. And any words that you don't know or phrases, write them down and look them up later. So that when, when you're talking to them, you're not asking them to teach you everything. They learn in medical school, on a telephone call. You can educate yourself now with Google, Google scholar, YouTube, and learn a lot on your own so that you really do understand what they're talking about when they speak.

Scott Harper (36:03): You can ask them to spell it for you.

Saundra Rogers (36:05): Right. You can ask them to spell it. Absolutely.

Pam Harper (36:09): And the other thing too is if something doesn't seem right to you, for instance, at some point there's usually a social worker that comes into play and they say, this is what we're going to do next, or a patient advocate. Or, you know, if you don't like that, if that doesn't seem right to you, it goes back to what we were talking about before is saying that doesn't seem right to me. I don't understand it. It doesn't seem right to me. We've had to go back and at one point ask for a patient advocate, right?

Saundra Rogers (36:45): Exactly.

Pam Harper (36:46): Every hospital, I believe should have one, but, it's something that a lot of people don't know about.

Saundra Rogers (36:53): That's true. They do have patient advocates and social workers, but there may only be one patient advocate for the entire hospital. And so that person may be difficult to get in contact with oddly enough, no one ever mentioned to me about a patient advocate

Pam Harper (37:09): They didn't. In fact, was something that I had been advised about. We had a situation where one of our loved ones was supposed to get an MRI and was kept waiting for quite a while. And I strolled up and I agree with you about saying things nicely and saying, "I understand you're under pressure. You know, you've got a lot going on. Maybe I need to get hold of the patient advocate." And suddenly why they were moving. So there are a lot of tools at our disposal. I think that that's clear for being able to be that voice for the voiceless.

Pam Harper (37:51): Saundra, can you leave us with some final thoughts on advocating for loved ones during a medical crisis?

Saundra Rogers (37:59): It's very important that you let them know that you want to know everything if you actually do want to know everything. Don't ask to know everything if you don't really want to know. I did, and I found out about things that weren't told to me at first. For example, there was one day when I, when I got the update from the doctor and he asked me, when was I coming in next? And I wasn't coming in that day, because I had scheduled someone else to come in and visit him. Visitors are very important, even if the person's unconscious, but there was something about his voice. That's just kind of stuck with me. So I just put my coat on and went out there to see what was going on. And he was yellow from head to foot. He had jaundice and the doctor didn't mention it when he just talked to me and I was furious and I walked in the room and he was, and he turned around, he saw me there.

Saundra Rogers (38:58): He said, I thought you weren't coming in today. I was like, well, I'm here. And I'd like to know why my son is yellow. And I'd like to know. He says, well, he's got jaundice. Do you know what that is? "I said, yes I do. But why didn't you tell me?" We talked about five minutes ago. You didn't mention it. So, and I, and I said, let me tell you again. I want to know everything. So I got more information after that, even more information that I was getting and I was getting quite a lot.

Scott Harper (39:22): I think that something else that is really important is to ask if you can put up pictures of friends and family on the walls of the room, not like frame pictures or anything that they're going to knock over. They need their space, they need space.

Saundra Rogers (39:35): But I had a lot of pictures put up. I had people make videos and me and video messages so that I could play those for him. Make sure that there's a photo of the patient looking healthy for the staff to see. So they know that this is how this person is. Normally you want them to see your loved one as a special person, talk about their hobbies and what makes them unique. Make sure that you visit the person. Even if you don't like hospitals, you need to see what's going on with your own eyes. Take notes on what you see when you're there so that you can ask important questions.

Scott Harper (40:14): So, creating that sense of connection and follow through that. That is very powerful.

Pam Harper (40:21): Absolutely. Well, Saundra, thank you so much for sharing your story and your advice with us today.

Saundra Rogers (40:27): Thank you for having me. Can I just say one more thing?

Scott Harper (40:31): Sure. Go ahead.

Saundra Rogers (40:32): A lot of people want to stay during visiting hours until they get kicked out. Please don't make the hospital staff kick you out. Leave when visiting hours are over, they've got work to do and ask for health and support. I am eternally grateful to the west pot rugby team. My friends, my family, my husband, qua Laki and Nelson's people, all of his people for their support during his illness, Nelson died on January 6th, 2021. He was 36 years old, and he is sorely missed.

Scott Harper (41:05): Thank you so much, Saundra. And thanks to you out there for listening to this important story on Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper. To contact us, get show notes and resource links for this week's episode, go to growthignitersradio.com and select episode 219

Pam Harper (41:25): Until next time, this is Pam Harper...

Scott Harper (41:27): And Scott Harper...

Pam Harper (41:28): ...Wishing you continued success, and leaving you with these questions to consider:

Pam Harper (41:33): What more do I need to know to prepare myself to advocate for my loved ones in a medical crisis? What do I need to put into place, starting today?

Chris Curran (41:52): Growth Igniters and Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper are registered service marks of Business Advancement Incorporated. All Growth Igniters Radio episodes are copyrighted productions of Business Advancement Incorporated, intended for the private use of our audience. Except as otherwise provided by copyright law, all other uses, including copying, editing, redistribution and publication without prior written consent of Business Advancement Incorporated are prohibited. All rights reserved.