Remembering Dr. Gail Hayes, Race Relations Advocate

Pam Harper: Hi, this is Pam Harper and Scott Harper. We're shocked and saddened to hear of the unexpected loss of one of our recent guests on Growth, Igniters® Radio, Dr. Gail Hayes. She passed away earlier this month after a brief illness.

Scott Harper: Dr. Gail was a powerful advocate of racial equity, and just a force of nature. We only knew her for a few short months but she became a friend, and she was one of those people you meet and you feel like you've known all your life.

Pam Harper: Yes. Our hearts go out to her family, of whom she was so proud, as well as to her many other colleagues and friends who are part of the Dr. Gayle fan club. We will miss her.

Scott Harper: Yes, we will. So to honor her, we're going to revisit our entire conversation with Dr. Gail Hayes from episode one 82... Let's go.

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Pam Harper: At a time of heightened awareness of racial injustice, there are emerging opportunities for business leaders to make a positive difference. Find out how top leadership can build bridges to promote racial equity; listen to episode 182 of Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper.

Chris Curran: This episode is brought to you by Business Advancement Incorporated, enabling successful leaders and companies to accelerate to their next level of growth. On the web at businessadvance.com. And now, here's Pam and Scott!

Pam Harper: Thanks, Chris. I'm Pam Harper, Founding Partner and CEO of Business Advancement Incorporated, and sitting right across from me, as always, is my business partner and husband, Scott Harper. Hi Scott.

Scott Harper: Hi Pam. It's a pleasure to join you again for another episode of Growth Igniters Radio, and as always, our purpose is to spark new insights, inspiration, and immediately useful ideas for visionary leaders and their companies to accelerate themselves to their next level of game-changing innovation, transformation, and growth.

Scott Harper: Pam, as we're recording this episode, there is a strong surge in awareness of racial injustice all over our country. And this includes an intensified focus on the force of systemic racism in businesses of all kinds and sizes. There's so much work to do to address this issue, and we've raised this before in several of our previous episodes of Growth Igniters Radio. But in addition to being a moral and ethical imperative, there's also a business case for doing this.

Pam Harper: Yes. And today, we're focusing on a promising emerging trend that can be a real game-changer for companies to reach their full potential at a time of unprecedented challenges. And that is that there are more top business leaders who are building bridges of understanding to promote racial equity in their organizations.

Scott Harper: Excellent.

Pam Harper: And to talk about this with us, we are pleased to have as our guest executive leadership coach, Dr. Gail Hayes. She's a race relations consultant, speaker, award-winning book author, and media personality, who is internationally recognized as a communicator who ignites the atmosphere with contagious enthusiasm and a passion for purpose.

Pam Harper: She has been called a conduit and bridge between races, genders, generations, and political parties because of her unique ability to paint pictures with words to promote understanding between communities. She currently serves on the advisory council of the American Diversity Report and enjoys helping organizations create new ways of doing business in today's changing culture. You can read so much more about Dr. Gail Hayes by going to GrowthIgnitersRadio.com, episode 182, and scroll down to her bio.

Pam Harper: Gail, welcome to Growth Igniters Radio.

Gail Hayes: Well, thank you, Pam and Scott. Thank you for having me as your guest. I am very honored to be here.

Pam Harper: Well, we're honored to have you too. What we want to do is start out first by making sure we're all talking about the same thing. One of the things that we've been noticing is that the ideas of racial equity and equality get bandied about, and we believe they're not the same thing. I think it's so important for us all to be clear on the language. What do you see as the difference?

Gail Hayes: Wow. Equity is raising the bar. It's like, okay, how are we going to do business? Equality is looking straight across the table at someone and saying, "I know that they're equal and I've got to treat them as such."

Gail Hayes: To me, when you have equity, you're building something. Equality is being able to already be there. It's almost like we have some people who are helping to build a building and some people who are already in the building telling you if there's a shift, if that makes any sense.

Scott Harper: So equity is a matter of justice and fairness, and equality is, "we're all the same."

Gail Hayes: Absolutely.

Pam Harper: And it's an outcome too, equity is, and a process in its own way. With that as a backdrop, thinking about the crisis of the pandemic, businesses are struggling to survive. There is so much going on.

Gail Hayes: Yes.

Pam Harper: So why is now the time for top leadership to make promoting racial equity a high priority?

Gail Hayes: When you say equity, again, it's about building. Whether we, as leaders, want to accept it or not, it is a time of shift, a time of change. And with that, I will say this, what I always say — I didn't come to offend, but to inform.

Gail Hayes: Here's the deal. It's almost like the shift that we're in now is like we have tectonic plates and they're shifting and it's an earthquake. And there are those of us who have always lived with the shift and there are those of us who are people of color. We're accustomed to shifting. So I'm saying to the majority, at this point, this shift is uncomfortable. It's making you nervous, but if you want to survive the shift, come with us, link arms with us because we know the way. So you've got to value that place, if you will, of people who are different, who have a different paradigm.

Gail Hayes: And I like to say to leaders, “You’ve got to come out of your ivory tower. You have frontline employees, team leaders, and mid-level managers who see the world through different eyes than you do. And if you want to survive this shift, you've got to get their input because they know the way, because they're down there building.”

Gail Hayes: “I know that you are the visionary and you've got to see what's out front, but the land has changed because the tectonic plates have shifted,” if that makes sense.

Pam Harper: It does. And in fact, that's why we see it as a game-changing issue because the fact is that we're dealing with situations out there that we've never seen before. Who better to provide top leadership with new directions for how to address something, than people who've lived in a very different experience? We all need to come together.

Gail Hayes: Absolutely.

Scott Harper: So Gail, there's an increasing number of articles, news stories, and commentaries about the growing need for racial justice and equity. It's in Harvard Business Review, it's in Fast Company, it's all over the place with all this discussion about racial equity, and social justice, and systemic racism. There are lots of well-intended people out there, yet how can even the most sophisticated companies and leaders still have blind spots? How is that possible?

Gail Hayes: We all creatures of habit, Scott, and we get really comfortable in our own space. Okay? It's like, if you have a disease, you don't go to the hospital just to hang around with the doctors. When you get sick, you don't do that. You go because you need to go. Correct? So what's happening now is we're at home, we're having fun, we're living our lives, and all of a sudden, boom, stuff happens, we start feeling sick. We’ve got to go to the hospital. So that means we have to get immersed in the medical culture. And that medical culture gets you well and sends you back out to your life, but they are still a part of your life. And you have to honor what they bring.

Gail Hayes: It's pretty much like that's the thing I can think of off the top of my head. And some places we don't want to go, but we're going have to go there so we can stay healthy. You see what I mean?

Scott Harper: Yes.

Gail Hayes: We’ve got to go and get a checkup. We’ve got to get healthy. We have to honor what they bring. It's the same with what's going on now. Your listeners are probably senior executives and they've got to understand, they're in a totally different place than their frontline employees. You've got to get that input in order for you to execute a new vision. In other words, it’s time for you to create a new normal, a new universe. And this time, it's going to give you that. You've got to be creative. You've got to be responsive because things are not the same. But think about it, the possibilities are endless if you get those voices!

Scott Harper: That's true. And the thing is that with culture, so frequently, it's like ask a fish how the water is, and the fish will say, "What water?" Right?

Gail Hayes: Exactly.

Scott Harper: We are so used to our culture that we don't always know what we don't know.

Pam Harper: So the issue is, it's a lot of work to create those bridges. It's a commitment. So let's make sure that we're very clear; in the face of this changing culture that we're talking about, what are the top benefits of having that commitment to building bridges to promote racial equity?

Gail Hayes: Well, I want to say this. Scott used the term well-intentioned. Well-intentioned people may have good intentions, but they don't always ask people what they need. Just because your intentions are good doesn't mean that they're right. You have to ask.

Scott Harper: Totally.

Gail Hayes: See, that's where we get into what people call privilege, because you just assume that you know what will make everything better and you don't. And that's why it's so important to build a bridge. You must ask the bridge builders. There are people who can build bridges for you, but you believe that you know already what the bridge is supposed to be made of, or whatever it looks like. And you may choose the wrong stuff because you didn't ask the questions.

Gail Hayes: And so, asking, make sure intentions are really good intentions, as opposed to well-intended assumptions. Good intentions are intentions that you get input from people who have to walk across that bridge with you, and that's really what has been missing. Too many decisions are made without the necessary information to build a solid bridge, the solid bridges that we need.

Gail Hayes: That's why it's so important that as senior executives, as leaders, we ask our team. Let me tell you what. When you ask the questions and you really listen, you'll be amazed at some of the problems that are going to be solved just from a simple tip from somebody on the front line who sees the world through different eyes.

Gail Hayes: And that's what this is about. These bridges that we're building have to be built not just by senior management, but you have to have your team, even the frontline team, help you build a bridge. You'd be amazed. They'll save you some money too because they'll see things that you don't see.

Pam Harper: So, the more that we're talking with each other and seeing things with fresh eyes, eyes wide open, I think you say…

Gail Hayes: Yes.

Pam Harper: The more we're going to be able to be successful. It's going to be a worthwhile effort.

Pam Harper: Well, we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to talk more with Dr. Gail Hayes about how we can keep our eyes wide open as we are building bridges to promote racial equity. Stay with us.

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Scott Harper: This is Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper. We're brought to you by Business Advancement Incorporated, on the web at businessadvance.com. As always, we focus on enabling visionary C-suite leaders to accelerate momentum for game-changing innovation, transformation, and growth.

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Scott Harper: Yeah. And it's also the only place you can find unique show notes, biographies, and resource links specifically related to each of our podcast episodes. Subscribe today by going to GrowthIgnitersRadio.com. Click on “Sign up now.”

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Pam Harper: Welcome back to Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper — that's me — and Scott Harper. Scott and I are talking today with Dr. Gail Hayes, executive leadership coach, race relations consultant, speaker, and award-winning book author. Gail, how can people find out more about you and your work?

Gail Hayes: Well, they can visit me at handleyourbusinessgirl.com. Or find me anywhere on the web, @drgailhayes on Twitter and Instagram. You know what? I tell people just google me. I'm all over the place.

Pam Harper: She is. You can also see links and more resources from this conversation by going to GrowthIgnitersRadio.com, episode 182, and scrolling down to resources.

Pam Harper: Gail, before the break we were talking about taking a different approach to building bridges to promote racial equity. And it starts, you said, with keeping your eyes wide open and looking at things in a different way.

Pam Harper: One of the things that I know is, too many people think about this whole issue and they say, "Well, we're doing a diversity program. Look at those numbers. Look at this progress.” But that isn't really how you would go about doing this, is it?

Gail Hayes: Well, let me tell you, you stepped right into something in front of me and I'm thinking, "Should I go in there with Pam?" I'm going to go with it. So many times, it's like a bum rush right now for diversity and inclusion. “Oh and by the way, we've got to include race in that.”

Gail Hayes: So it's like people want to check off a box just to say they've done it, but you have to change the whole culture.

Pam Harper: Exactly.

Gail Hayes: You cannot just have this little 90 minute training thing and think it's going to be done. You've got to have follow-up. You've got to change the culture, and that culture change starts at the top. Languaging is so important. This is one of my quotes; I say, "What you think you'll believe in your heart will come out of your mouth.

Gail Hayes: And you have to know, people listen to what you say, and they can tell what you believe because of what you say. And so, as leaders, we have to watch what we say. It's time for us to change the languaging. I'm going to tell you something. I really strongly believe in this, Scott and Pam — we are the only part of creation that has the power of speech, and our words are so powerful. Those words are building blocks for culture; we have to watch what we say and how we say it. Changing the languaging is important, and so is listening.

Gail Hayes: Let me give you an example. My daughter is very big on social media; she's my social media director. And when all this happened, when we had the George Floyd thing happen, she has friends all over the world and almost all of her friends are white. And they were like, "Okay, we're going to fight for you. We're really, really going to." And my daughter stopped them all and said this — and this is what the key is for leaders. She stopped them and said, "I think that's wonderful that you want to be involved in this cause, but you can't fight FOR me. That automatically says that you're superior to me. How about if you fight WITH me?" You see how big of a difference that one word made in that sentence?

Pam Harper: Yes.

Gail Hayes: It goes back to the intention that you talked about, Scott. Your intentions are reflected in your words. And her friends said, "Oh, fight with me. Ask me what kind of weapons you need, ask me how we're going to go into warfare together, ask me how you're going to be my comrade in arms, ask me what I need." That really has been the missing component to all of this. People just assuming they know what other people feel and how they see things, but not having the full picture. As a leader, you've got to change that narrative.

Pam Harper: That's so true because, of course, shaping culture starts at the top, and goes all the way through the organization and around it. But we're starting with people who need to own how they express things and what we reinforce.

Gail Hayes: Absolutely

Scott Harper: And so, back to Pam's point, equity is more than just adding to diversity, getting more people of color in the door. It's also giving them the opportunities they need, coming from where they're coming from, to reach their full potential.

Gail Hayes: Right. And you can't just throw anything at them. “Let's quickly get a black person over here. Oh, wait a minute. We got to get a Hispanic person.” No, no, no. Wait, wait, wait. Before you do that, let me tell you what. There's nothing worse than being the token, is what we call it. And you know you're a token coming in the door because people look down their noses at you and they say, "Why are you doing over there by yourself?" Well, people can sense when they're not really welcome and they're just put in as a placeholder. Let's get real. You don't offer tokens opportunities. They're left out of things. It's just a whole cultural thing that goes on, and it’s driven by those biases, there's so many of them.

Gail Hayes: But that can be changed by even something simple, like micro affirmations. Here’s a simple one: “Treat people the way you want to be treated.”

Gail Hayes: It's a real simple process. I always say, “Whatever you put out into the universe, it's going to either do one of two things. It's going to hit you in the chest like a sledgehammer or it will touch your heart.” It's going to come back to you. So think about this. How would you like to be treated? It's just as simple. And if you don't know, ask.

Pam Harper: So that's one part of it. The other piece, of course, is looking at how many ways that systemic racism shows up. You first have to discover how many ways it does show up. For example, I was reading an article in Fast Company where Jeff Bezos had decided that Amazon was no longer going to sell facial recognition software called Recognition to law enforcement officers due to the efforts of Joy Buolamwini.

Scott Harper: Right. She she discovered that facial recognition software from a variety of vendors didn't actually recognize people, outside from maybe white men, that well.

Pam Harper: Right. My point is, there are so many ways that this unconscious bias shows up. In the conversations that you have with people, do you help them to look at that too?

Gail Hayes: Absolutely. But it takes more than one conversation. So we have so many things that are embedded in us. And I think when people meet me, I shake or shatter some of their images of, quote unquote, “black women.” They immediately expect, number one, that I am a black Democrat and I am sitting on the front row of a black church. They have all these things in their mind about me. When they find out all of them are not true, they're visibly shaken and they're intrigued, too.

Gail Hayes: That's why we have to have these conversations. We have these automatic things that we assume about people that are not always true, and we don't stop to find out if they are true. And that goes both ways.

Pam Harper: Well, that's true. We make so many assumptions about who people are. There are so many ways things get embedded into how we do things that we don't even think about. This includes our hiring, of course, but we should also look at the types of vendors that we bring in, how we go about our process for that. It shows up in ways that we don't think about. So, the points that you're making are so important. It’s so powerful to be willing to talk about things in new ways and to clear away the biases.

Scott Harper: Yes. Even when it's not comfortable.

Gail Hayes: Oh, I see. And that's the thing, Scott. People are not comfortable. For instance, somebody asked me very recently about, "We want to help reshape the culture." But I'm going to be honest with you. I'm on this big circle of people, and they're all talking about diversity and inclusion, and they're all white. And I'm thinking, "I'm the only black person in this big group of “experts,” and all of these white people are going into corporations because people are comfortable with people like them.

And I'm thinking, "But you're never going to get anywhere. You're not going to get any new information if all your diversity and inclusion people are white people." Get someone who can speak your language, who understands your language, and they happen to be black, or they happen to be another ethnicity. I'm just being real.

Pam Harper: That's an important point. Now, you were telling me before this recording session about the courses that you even teach and how you go about helping people to open their eyes wider.

Gail Hayes: Yes. I have a training called “Eyes Wide Open: Racial Bias in the Workplace,” where I talk about different things. That course is online, and I would love for organizations to be able to take the course.

Gail Hayes: I was sharing with you how I see things. Now, this is probably a little different than most people see things, but I truly believe we need to learn to work together. So, this course has been put together with my content. At the beginning of the course, I'm speaking on video saying, "Hi, welcome to the course," but then, the next thing you see is the instructor, and it's a white female.

Gail Hayes: And you might say, "What?" Well, I know that every time she teaches my material, she's going to learn something. It's time for us to come together to teach this. It's my material and I'm partnering with someone who is white because we need to be seen working together to solve this problem. It's not going to be all white people solving it, and all black people solving it. We have to come together.

Gail Hayes: Now my marketing team was like, "What?" I said, "No, no, no. I need this to happen." And I gave them a hierarchy, I gave them a list of what kind of instructors I wanted. I said, "Because somebody's got to go out there on the bridge and say, 'Okay, here's the olive branch. Here's what I'm willing to do to play my role in this coming together, even if I'm not comfortable with it.'"

Gail Hayes: But I am comfortable with it; I like to make people uncomfortable about uncomfortable subjects, because that's the only way we're going to get to what we need. I'm comfortable with a white woman teaching this racial bias training because she'll be able to see things in herself that perhaps she had never seen before, and we can have a totally different dialogue. Every time that it happens, there's something new that's going to be discovered, and she's going to see things in herself.

Pam Harper: It goes back to building bridges and looking at things with different eyes, a different way of doing things, and the more the top leadership can positively shape cultural transformation by building bridges like this, the more likely it is that these concepts will come alive.

Gail Hayes: The way the top leadership can do that is they've got to be willing to listen to someone who may not look like them. You've probably got to get somebody like me who's not in your organization who can see objectively what the issues are, who really has a heart to help you.

Pam Harper: Okay. Well, we're going to talk about that more after the break. And when we come back, we're going to speak more with Dr. Gail Hayes about immediately useful tips for how you can build bridges to promote racial equity in your company. Stay with us.

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Scott Harper: You're listening to Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper, brought to you by Business Advancement Incorporated -- on the web at businessadvance.com.

Scott Harper: Does this sound like you? You're a visionary CEO or C-suite leader of an established company, and you want to leave a lasting legacy of good in the world. You also want your company to be the disruptor and not the disrupted, and you have a need for speed. But in the constantly shifting business environment, there are so many new twists and turns we've never seen before. How can you and your organization take full advantage of every opportunity — faster?

Pam Harper: That's where we come in. As strategic growth advisors, we specialize in guiding our clients through the critical leadership conversations that come with navigating through uncharted and ambiguous territory. Our clients have told us that we've been able to help them frame their challenges in unexpected ways that has enabled them to quickly get to the heart of complex issues. This has led to breakthrough decisions about strategy that have enabled them to accelerate momentum for top- and bottom-line growth worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

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Pam Harper: Welcome back to Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper. Over the last two segments, Scott and I have been talking with race relations consultant and speaker Dr. Gail Hayes about how leaders can promote racial equity, and in the process, promote game-changing results for their organizations. Gail, remind us again, how can people find out about you and your work?

Gail Hayes: Yes. My website is handleyourbusinessgirl.com, and then @drgailhayes. Just google me and you'll find me all over social media. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. I'm there.

Scott Harper: Ubiquitous. That's the word for the day.

Pam Harper: And again, you can see more about Dr. Gail Hayes on GrowthIgnitorsRadio.com. Just go to episode 182, scroll down into the resources area, you'll see all kinds of links from this conversation.

Pam Harper: So Gail, before the break we were talking about those eyes being wide open, you were talking about the importance of people working together, black, white, all different colors, to promote bridges for racial equity. Let's make this very tangible. As soon as somebody is done listening, they'll say, "Hey, I have to do this." Let's take these tips one at a time. What is something that would be immediately useful for a new conversation as they're discovering that maybe the situation in their company is not what they thought it was?

Gail Hayes: Wow. That's heavy. Okay. But they have to really be engaged on this because one of the first things that I would ask, and it may be hard to hear, is “just give me a situation where you felt that you were racially discriminated against. Tell me what happened, what words were used.”

Gail Hayes: You've got to have examples of what's going on presently in the company, and you've got to be able to listen. We're not doing it to beat anybody up. We're not doing it for them to point fingers. They can even ask for anonymous situations to point things out, because that's the only way you're going to really know what's going on is to ask the questions, and then be willing to take a look at what they said without wincing, without saying, "I can't believe this is happening." Yes, it is. It's happening. If you’ve got people of all ethnicities working together, you’ve got some stuff going on.

Gail Hayes: Then, it's about changing the languaging. I know at the end of my course, “Eyes Wide Open,” I have a list of quotes that I'm going to provide to people who take the course, to team leaders and managers, that they can use. And there will be tips under those quotes to help reinforce the new culture that they're creating.

Gail Hayes: But you can't just give the training and then say, "Oh, we've done it. Check it." You got to change the culture, helping people use those quotes those micro affirmations, just acts of kindness.

And here's another thing. I have a list of videos that I'm getting ready to put out. One of them is, “Five Things You Don't Say to a Black Person.” Now, you say, "Oh my God, Gail." But there are things that are said to us that people have no idea that they're offensive. One of them is, "I don't see color." I've heard leaders say this, "We have a colorblind society here." And I'm thinking, "That is so not right."

Gail Hayes: No. The only people that have an excuse for saying that are people who are legally blind. That's it. Because other than that, you do see color, and you usually only say that to black people. You don't say that when you're talking about a bunch of white people. You don't say, "Oh, I don't see color." You only say that to us, which indicates to us that, at some point in our relationship, we're going to have to deal with our color with you when you say you don't see it, because you've chosen to put it on the table. Pretty soon, you're going to pick it back up and there's going to be something that you're going to say or do.

Gail Hayes: Instead, say "Okay, look, here's some things that I've heard that happens to black people. Can you enlighten me.", and just be quiet. Ask an open-ended question. Don't say, "Has it happened to you?", say "Can you enlighten me?" You'd be amazed at the information that you get.

Pam Harper: Oh, that's terrific. Now, that Five Things Not To Say To Black People, are we going to be able to get a link to that so we can send listeners over?

Gail Hayes: I will. It's five different videos and I've already put the first one out on social media, the one that I just shared with you, “I don't see color.”

Scott Harper: Well, let's talk about another immediately useful idea. We've talked about joint problem solving. What is something that someone can do starting right now to actually kick that off?

Gail Hayes: When I said ask the open-ended questions. That's one thing. And then, actually listen and take notes, because you're going to forget most of what they say. Okay? And then, you ask them — after you asked the question, "Enlighten me." — then you ask them, "If you were in my position, how would you solve that?"

Gail Hayes: Okay? You put it back on them to get the information that you need. That way, they have ownership of the process. So many times, we don't give people ownership of the process so they say, "Oh, nothing's going to happen," because they don't think they've been heard, and that's really what this is about.

Gail Hayes: Asking the right questions, listening, and then letting them know that you heard them and let them know that they're going to call on you to help smooth the transition with this. You're going to have the ownership of this.

Scott Harper: Okay, and give feedback so that they know that you actually did hear.

Gail Hayes: Right. Take notes, or whatever, and read it back to them and say, "I want to make sure I have it correct." And then say, "Okay, I got this from you. I know you wanted to do it incognito, you don't want anybody to know, but I'm going to take this and look." And then, you're going to find out when you do that, there's going to be several people who are saying the same thing, and then you're going to have to decide how you're going to isolate that issue as a leader.

Pam Harper: Yes. This is a huge undertaking. Building any bridge is a huge undertaking.

Pam Harper: Gail, we're at the end of this episode. This is such a fascinating conversation. There's so much more. This is just the beginning. Are there final thoughts you want to leave us with for now about how top leadership can build bridges to promote racial equity?

Gail Hayes: Look for your bridge builders. They are there. Ask questions, tell them what you want to do. Don't do things in secrecy, because what you do in the dark, as the old people used to say where I'm from, will come to the light. And that's a true story. If you want to build a new bridge, you say, "I need bridge builders. I need people who really have a passion for this and who are unafraid to talk. There will be no repercussions. We need real answers from real people who are with us. Are you with us?"

Pam Harper: Gail, you've given us a lot to think about, and to do. We really appreciate having you as our guest today. Thank you.

Gail Hayes: Well, thank you so much for honoring me. Both you and Scott have been amazing, Pam. Thank you.

Scott Harper: Thanks, Gail. And thanks to you out there for listening to Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper. To check out resources related to today's conversation, share on social media, read Dr. Gail's bio and the episode transcript, or open a conversation with us, go to GrowthIgnitersRadio.com, select episode 182.

Pam Harper: Until next time, this is Pam Harper…

Scott Harper: And Scott Harper…

Pam Harper: ... wishing you continued success and leaving you with this question to discuss with your team:

Scott Harper: What is one thing that we can start to do differently or better, working together, that can build bridges to promote racial equity in our company?