The Next Big Wave for Business: Multi-Stakeholder Societal Benefit

Pam Harper (00:00): Our guest today says that multi-stakeholder societal benefit is the next big way for business. Find out why and what this can mean for you and your business. Join us for episode 207 of Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper.

Chris Curran (00:24): This episode is brought to you by Business Advancement Incorporated — enabling successful leaders and companies to accelerate to their next level of success. On the web at businessadvance.com. And now here's Pam and Scott.

Pam Harper (00:41): Thanks Chris. I'm Pam Harper, Founding Partner and CEO of Business Advancement Incorporated. And sitting right across from me as always is my business partner and husband, Scott Harper. Hi, Scott.

Scott Harper (00:54): Hi, Pam. It's great to join you again for another episode of Growth Ignites Radio and as always, our purpose is to spark new insights, inspiration, and immediately useful ideas to help visionary leaders accelerate themselves and their companies, of course, to their next level of game changing innovation, transformation and growth.

Scott Harper (01:14): Now Pam, CEOs, C-suite executives, and board members are telling us more and more that they care very deeply about ESG issues. But with the global unrest that we're seeing now, we're at a new inflection point, and this has implications that extend far beyond any individual company.

Pam Harper (01:37): Absolutely. It's one thing to create alliances and partnerships on a limited basis around specific strategic issues, but quite another to jointly vision with like-minded companies and NGOs to seriously commit to making the world a better place. This requires a new individual and collective mindset among a wide range of stakeholders. One that prioritizes long-term outcomes, that benefit society over a string of short term financial wins.

Scott Harper (02:09): Yes, that's true. It surely is a balancing act when you have so many constantly shifting interests and needs. Things are moving all over the place all the time.

Pam Harper (02:18): That's right. That's why we're speaking today with Andrew Hollo, the director and principal consultant at WorkWell Consulting. Andrew is one of Australia's leading experts in realizing the potential of organizations and groups to develop big ideas and gain collective results. He does his best work in demanding complex sectors and where work across organizational and sector boundaries is required. He has a high level of skill in getting diverse views to the highest value and clear conceptual agreement in the shortest possible time.

Pam Harper (02:55): In over 20 years, Andrew has led almost 1000 projects for clients who deliver substantial public value, such as governments and non-government privately held and non-profit organizations. You can read much more about Andrew's background by going to growthignitersradio.com, episode 207 and scrolling down to bio. Andrew, welcome to Growth Igniters Radio.

Andrew Hollo (03:21): Thanks very much, Pam and Scott for having me on. I'm very much looking forward to this conversation.

Pam Harper (03:26): It's such an important one, with all the things that are going on in the world. But before we get to that, tell us a little bit about what the major influence was that brought you to the focus of your business.

Andrew Hollo (03:45): I've had a lifelong fascination Pam in what makes society's work. And my reason for that is in my background, my family were post war migrant refugees from Europe, just as many in the US, Canada, the UK, and in Australia, we are descended from this diaspora of Eastern, Central, Western Europeans in that post war period. So, my parents came in the 1950s to Australia and Australia was a promised golden land. It was a place where there were no revolutions. It was a place where water flowed out of the tap. It was a place where you flicked a switch and the light went on. It was a place where you went to work confident in the knowledge that at night, there wouldn't be a knock at the door and somebody takes you off to a dark police cell. So, these are the things that my parents grew up telling me stories about.

Andrew Hollo (04:48): And consequently, it got me very interested in what makes society work when it works so well. Now, fast forward a few years, and as a small child, my father tragically was killed and he was killed in a road accident. And he was-

Pam Harper (05:07): Oh, so sorry.

Andrew Hollo (05:08): Yeah. And if I'm honest, I don't remember him. I was three and a half and he was walking home from work and crossing a road. And the year is 1969. So, more than 50 years ago, he's hit at dusk in the rain and the drizzle by an underaged, unlicensed driver of an unroadworthy vehicle. Now that boy, he was only 17. He killed my father on the spot and a tragic event. But as I reflect on what happened on that day, that wouldn't have happened today. There are some really major shifts in society that have occurred that mean that my father's death was perhaps not preventable by the standards of 1969, but it's entirely preventable by the standards of 2022. We have different laws around drink driving. This young man was drunk. We have different laws around vehicle manufacturing. We have road safety. We have driver education. We have better signage, better footpaths, better roadways, pretty much everything that was not in place in 1969.

Andrew Hollo (06:27): And so through the course of my life, I became very interested in how these different elements combined, both private and public to create societies, where fathers coming home from work don't get killed, that's really the essence of it.

Scott Harper (06:45): Now, we're talking about something called “multi stakeholder societal benefit,” which is a real mouthful. And people toss these terms around, there's that, there's ESG, there's stakeholder capitalism. For the benefit of this conversation, how do you define multi-stakeholder societal benefit, and why does it matter now more than ever before?

Andrew Hollo (07:11): I don't have a simple term. I call it multi-stakeholder benefit. I call it public value, where what we are looking at is the ownership of all the impacts and consequences of an activity, whether they're intended or not. For decades, we've had a dogma of shareholder primacy. In other words, businesses exist to enrich a group of owners. Now, just for the record, I'm a capitalist and has no problem with profit, but what we need to be able to understand is who do the profits accrue to and at what cost to others? Because what multi-stakeholder benefit is about, it says, organizations have to operate for the long term benefit, yes if they're owners, but they exist in a society. And as a consequence, what we're looking at is shareholder value is a result of societally beneficial activity, not the goal. And there are plenty of organizations that classing themselves today as net positive businesses.

Andrew Hollo (08:32): And that perhaps is a better term than multi-stakeholder benefit, where we are thinking net positive. Now, what does net means? Net means on every dimension, and there are some huge net positive businesses out there today. There's Unilever, which makes half of what you find in some of the supermarket aisles that we visit in most western developed companies. There's Danone, they make milk products. They make bottled water. There's Ikea, there's Coca-Cola, there's Nestle. Now, not all of these are entirely net positive businesses, but they are taking concerted steps towards looking at their business as a circular chain. And so, Danone asks themselves, "Well, how do we think about the entire production cycle?" So we look at the 52% of resources that go into the actual milk production. The 12% that goes into packaging, the 10% that goes into manufacturing, the 8% into logistics, the 2% in the end of life use of the products. And then the 6% that occurs in our households when we are using the products.

Andrew Hollo (09:51): Now, how do you accommodate all of that cycle and build it into your economic system, your production system, et cetera. So, that's the thinking behind net positive businesses. And there's a ground swell, like you said, in your introduction,

Scott Harper (10:07): You said something to us a while back that really stuck with me. It's, if society doesn't function and the world goes to hell, there is no business. So, yeah, net positive makes a lot of sense.

Andrew Hollo (10:23): Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You cannot have a successful business in a failed society.

Pam Harper (10:29): Let's talk a little bit about the top implications for how CEOs, C-suites and boards will need to lead differently to assure current and future societal benefit?

Andrew Hollo (10:42): What I'm seeing Pam, and hearing from many of the people I interact with as CEOs and as board directors, is that they recognize that our current economic system has two fundamental weaknesses. Firstly, it's built on an assumption of unlimited growth on a finite planet. And secondly, it benefits a small number of people, not everybody. So, what that creates is a trust deficit. It creates a world where corporations are not trusted. It creates a world where governments are not trusted. It creates a world where some in the nonprofit realm are trusted, but many are not as well. So, what the implication is, is how to reorient the thinking and the practice inside businesses that recognizes these factors. And fundamentally asks the question, how is the world better off because we are in it? That's the headline question.

Pam Harper (11:51): And that's a good place for us to take a break. And when we come back, we'll dig deeper with Andrew Hollo, director and principal consultant at WorkWell Consulting, about the leadership it takes to create multi-stakeholder societal benefit. Stay with us...

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Scott Harper (12:11): This is Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper. We're brought to you by Business Advancement Incorporated, and we're on the web at businessadvance.com. Now, as always, we focus on enabling visionary CEOs and C-suite leaders to accelerate the momentum it takes to create game changing innovation, transformation, and growth.

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Pam Harper (13:31): Welcome back to Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper — that's me — and Scott Harper. Today, Scott and I are speaking with Andrew Hollo, the director and principal consultant at WorkWell Consulting. Andrew, tell us how people can find out more about you, your work and your book?

Andrew Hollo (13:49): I wrote a book called From Impossible to Possible because so many of my clients told me after we'd done strategic projects, that this is the business we are in. We are creating possibility out of things that were formally considered impossible. And that could be anything from closing an environmental cycle of some sort, so that we are a non-waste producing business, or it could be as fundamentalist ensuring that healthy aging is possible for people in their own homes, or it could be cancer prevention. So, if you think about just those three, we are in a fundamentally different world to one that existed 50 years ago. So, anyone who's interested can certainly go to my website, which is workwell.com.au. And on that website, there's an opportunity to download a book with my compliments as well as sign up for a weekly newsletter, which I call the Five Minute Strategic Mindset in which I share three thought provokers every week on a strategic level, gives leaders a way to flex their strategic muscles.

Pam Harper (15:00): And I highly recommend both the books and the newsletter. I follow it. It's a great resource. So, do you be sure to take advantage of that? And you can also find out more information and links for this episode related links, by going to growthignitersradio.com episode 207, and scrolling down to resources.

So, back to our conversation, in the first segment we were talking about what multi-stakeholder societal of benefit is the importance of making sure that everybody understands what we mean, and that in fact there is a need for a different type of leadership to create this focus. So, at this point, maybe a story… We've been talking very theoretically, so can you tell us about a company and leadership that illustrates what it took to make the shift?

Andrew Hollo (16:03): I can tell you three really quick ones. In fact, four super-fast, because there are so many, there are so many, and I thought it would be helpful if we used some household names here. So, ultimately what they all share in common is a viewpoint that says that business cannot be a bystander in the systems that give it life. Systems of people, systems in the environment, economic systems. And so, a really quick one, George Clooney, well known Hollywood actor became the public face of Nestle for one of its product lines, the Espresso coffee line. Now famously he took a fee of tens of millions of dollars for this. And that's what got a lot of the press at the time. But what was less well known is that Clooney is a very strong advocate for human rights, for sustainability, for geopolitical security, and for many of the concerns that net positive businesses have.

Andrew Hollo (17:09): And so, he talked with Nestle about the fact that, yes, he will be the face of the organization, but what he wants to also ensure is that company practice is reformed, so that the producers of the coffee beans who are impoverished, small scale farmers in Africa and other parts of the world, adequately compensated, so that they have the ability to have a living wage. They've got the ability to send their children to school, to purchase healthcare, to have electricity in their houses, et cetera, et cetera. Now that's just a very small example. There are others. Puma, the company that makes running shoes and other sporting equipment. They were one of the first businesses who said, yes, of course we'll have a financial profit and loss statement, but we are also going to develop an EP&L, an environmental profit and loss statement into which we are going to factor all of the environmental costs in sourcing, producing, and packaging and distributing our product. And they have made financial calculations about these costs and ways to return those effects at the other end.

Andrew Hollo (18:34): Now they are taking it further because at the moment it goes from what you could call cradle to gate as in the production of a shoe to you and I getting at home, but they want to go further and they want to go cradle to grave. To understand well, what happens to the shoe after we are finished using it? And it's those externalities and even the fact that they're called externalities, is a problem for us today because those costs are never factored into the costs of actually producing and getting the product to us. They're also in future going to look at ways to build into their EP&L, job creation factors, human rights factors, and these other less tangible factors. So, they're just two examples. I think I could tell you about what Ikea is doing. I could tell you about what Coca-Cola is doing, but there are many others.

Pam Harper (19:30): It's notable when you step back and you can say, yeah, there are a lot of companies that are doing this in business round table and all of that. The shift though, is to to go from “this is the way that we do business” to “we're going to actually change the way we structure our business and the strategy that we take.”

Scott Harper (19:54): And view fiduciary responsibility differently, yeah.

Pam Harper (19:57): Exactly. Can you share with us a little bit about how some of these top leaders came to work together with their stakeholders?

Scott Harper (20:09): And what's that mind shift; how do you get stakeholders that sometimes have very, very contrasting needs and priorities together on something as massive as this?

Andrew Hollo (20:20): This is a fascinating question. And it's what's fascinated me in the 20 plus years of my career as a strategic advisor, because what I notice is that it usually emanates from a single person or a small group of people who have had some kind of a wakeup call and a half moment, an epiphany. An example of this is Paul Polman, who was the CEO of Unilever for 10 years. He tells a fabulous story of his daughter coming home and asking, "You run this big business, dad, what's the planet going to look like if you keep doing what you are doing for me and my kids?" And this put a completely different lens on the way that Paul saw the world. And he relates this very nicely in his book, Net Positive. My belief is that if you look at some of the big players in this space who are leading this sort of ground swell, we've got venture capitalists, like John Doerr looking at environmental OKRs, where we've got Larry Fink who runs the largest private equity firm.

Andrew Hollo (21:48): We've got leaders gathering at Davos as part of the world economic forum. We've got John Mackey, who was the founder and CEO of Whole Foods running an entire body of thinking called Conscious Capitalism. Now, once again, I could go on and on and on what we are finding is that these are people who are having a series of epiphanies and aha moments, who then bring these into conversations with their boards, with their executive teams, with their suppliers, with their customers, with their stakeholders. And again, coming back to this fundamental belief, that society has to be better off because of our place in it. And it's a question of and, not or. It's not a question of environment or profit. It's how do we do environmental responsibility and profit? And if you look into any of the ways these individuals are running their very successful businesses and commercial enterprises, you see that this and thinking is occurring.

Pam Harper (23:00): I agree with you. I think that looking at it in the form of, and is so important. And one of the big challenges I think is wrapping the head around the idea that you don't have to show profit the same way. I mean, you can't. When you're talking about something that is so long term and such a big issue, especially when you're partnering with such a diversity of stakeholders. And of course, that something that you have quite a bit of experience with, is there something that is really the key to making that particular shift?

Andrew Hollo (23:41): I call it multidimensional thinking. It's looking at the organization that you are in from multiple perspectives. Organizations that for example, only or predominantly focus on the economic actually create waste because they're not thinking about the other dimensions of an issue. So, I've been working with the UN lately. And as part of my work there, I've learned somewhat shockingly that 75% of all plastics ever made since the World War II are still in existence. And 75% of that lives, guess where in landfills and in the ocean. So now, the UN famously has just passed a resolution on banning plastic waste globally, and working on that agreement within the next two years. Now, this is a very big step, but coming back to your question, how should we be thinking? My very strong encouragement and this is what I do with my clients, is let's look at your business, your operations and your ultimate value from every perspective.

Andrew Hollo (25:01): And this is not an unusual phenomenon. So, there are many multi-sided business models out there that say we are going to capture a previously wasted element of our society or resource in some way. And if you look at the Ubers of the world, the Airbnb's of the world, what are they doing fundamentally? They are thinking multi-dimensionally and asking, there is unused capacity or an unused asset out there that can be utilized in an intelligent fashion. And what we can be doing is building a platform that reduces that waste and ensures that there's as little slippage as possible. So, I think of waste as a very powerful way to think about what are the various interests and how can we make sure that as many of them as possible are taken into account?

Pam Harper (25:57): Absolutely. When you're reframing an issue like this and taking it out of the usual thinking and creating something that actually people can see that it makes a difference. And of course it all starts, as you said, with personal commitment. Somebody's at the top have to believe that it makes a difference. That's where it begins. That's where it begins. And of course, it's a journey. We're going to take a quick break first. And when we come back, Scott and I will speak more with Andrew Hollo, the director and principal consultant at WorkWell Consulting about immediately useful ideas for leadership for multi-stakeholder societal benefit. Stay with us...

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Scott Harper (26:47): You're listening to Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper. We are brought to you by Business Advancement Incorporated on the web at businessadvance.com. We focus on enabling visionary leaders to dramatically increase momentum for game changing results. Now, Pam, our regular listeners know that many leaders we speak with are used to moving in new directions, to respond to a world that's changing in so many ways faster than ever before. But, as one CEO recently shared with us, it's one thing to be on top, but it's another a thing to make a lasting impact.

Pam Harper (27:25): That's right. That's why I develop my keynote, how Growth Igniters Lead for Tomorrow, starting today, find out the secret of the successful visionary leaders who are able to ignite game changing growth that creates long term benefit in a short term world.

Scott Harper (27:41): So, go to pamharperspeaks.com today to find out more about Pam's keynote and her availability to speak at your next leadership conference.

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Pam Harper (28:02): Welcome back to Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper. Over the last two segments, Scott and I have been speaking with Andrew Hollo, the director and principal consultants at WorkWell Consulting about the growing wave of businesses, including multi-stakeholders societal benefit as part of their strategic imperatives. Andrew, tell us how people can find out more about you, your work and your books?

Andrew Hollo (28:30): The easiest way is to get online, have a look at workwell.com.au and plenty of resources are there freely available. And I think the most immediate way is to subscribe to Five Minute Strategic Mindset, my Friday newsletter that I very much enjoy writing and putting out to people. So, you'll find that on the website as well.

Pam Harper (28:57): And you can find out more information and links about this episode by going to growthignitersradio.com, episode 207, scroll down to resources. So, we are at the part of our episode here, where we talk about the immediately useful ideas for bringing all this good discussion to life. And in this case, it's about leading an organization to create multi-stakeholder societal benefit. And let's start with a practical idea for shifting top leadership mindset.

Andrew Hollo (29:31): I've got two practical ideas. The first is asking, is it enough? In other words, I worked with government that was leading the public health response during the COVID pandemic here in Australia. And this is the government department that is responsible for funding hospitals, all sorts of health services, and much, much, much else besides a budget of tens of billions of dollars a year. And my question to the senior leaders there was, how are you thinking about your fundamental end game? And is it enough what you are thinking? And it got them to think about the fact that why wouldn't we aim for actually saying we are creating a world where we are the healthiest people in the world.

Andrew Hollo (30:26): In Australia, we are fortunate to be prosperous, socially cohesive. We have a safe society and we've got good infrastructure. So, if we look at all of the various metrics of good health being relative standards of equality, high life expectancy, very good access globally speaking to healthcare, why wouldn't we say, we can be the healthiest people in the world. So, that's the first step. Now that was a fascinating conversation because it led to, and you can go online and see the strategy today that we created from this that said, yes, we will be the healthiest people in the world. The second practical idea is to broaden the meaning of business. In my conversations with my clients, I'm frequently encouraging them to broaden four areas, broaden the thinking you do around your value chain. So, don't just optimize within your business, but look at your suppliers and your partners, value chains, and look at your customers lives. Broaden your concept of time. Don't think only in terms of quarters or annual cycles. Think in terms of five, 10 years and generational impact.

Andrew Hollo (31:54): Broaden your view of stakeholders. Don't just think about the obvious suppliers and employees, think about the full array of those who are connected to your business or could be connected to your business. And lastly, broaden the way you think about money, rethink how you are deploying and securing capital and reduce if you need to the focus on investors and their rewards and put them into balance with the other forms of societal benefit that you are creating and then help them understand that. So, they are my two immediate ideas that I find at a strategic level work best, broaden the meaning of business and ask, is it enough what we are doing or can we think even bigger?

Scott Harper (32:39): Now, building on your last point about changing stakeholder definitions of profit and so on, do you have a practical idea for shifting stakeholder mindsets? Because some people want to look at things the way they want to look at things.

Andrew Hollo (32:56): Now. I am going to step back Scott and say, do you have the right stakeholders? Ah-huh.

Pam Harper (33:03): Oh, okay.

Scott Harper (33:03): You like that one?

Pam Harper (33:04): All right. Redefining. It takes on a new term here.

Andrew Hollo (33:07): Yes, absolutely. I'm a great believer in order to reorient a business or an enterprise for the future, you have to go back to first principles and you have to ask, who are the best partners, the best collaborators for us. And so, if we are looking at future proofing ourselves, do we need clean tech partners? Do we need artificial intelligence and data partners? Do we need people who can help measure circularity impact? Do we need people who can help us with organizational development and people development, so that our people are purposeful and high performing. And we find the right partners. A lot of people talk about values, aligned partnerships, but behind that jargon, I think is a very strong truth. And that is when you find the right partners and this is then my practical tip. The best thing you can do is get them involved in your strategy creation. Don't treat them as separate entities, bring them into what I call a round table approach, get them talking to each other. And then the multi-perspectival thinking occurs in the room. This has been my experience. It's very powerful.

Scott Harper (34:25): You're preaching to the choir here. And once again, you're demonstrating the value of reframing, a question and reframing how we look at our situations. It's so powerful.

Pam Harper (34:38): Okay. So, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, this extends to shareholders too for public companies. Because if you have investors that don't understand, suddenly you end up with activist investors and companies forced into directions that maybe you don't want to go.

Scott Harper (35:01): So, you've got to be very clear.

Pam Harper (35:03): What if we were talking about making sure that anything that we're communicating to the investor community is very clear about what we're talking about here? What do you think?

Andrew Hollo (35:18): Absolutely. And once again, I'll go back to Paul Polman at Unilever, who famously stopped issuing quarterly guidance to the investor community. And he said, no, it focuses us in the wrong way, at the wrong times on the wrong things. And ultimately, I couldn't agree more, Pam. There is a need to educate the investor community, which is not an easy thing to do, but it is possible to do in broadening their perspectives.

Pam Harper (35:52): Let's look at one more practical idea. And this one on evaluating progress. We are in a constantly changing world. We say, this is the strategy we're following. Then we've got all the unrest that's going on in the world at this point.

Scott Harper (36:07): Well, pandemics or whatever.

Pam Harper (36:08): Yeah. The situation in Ukraine, all of this. How do you measure your progress under these conditions?

Andrew Hollo (36:15): I'm a great believer in progress against what? So, ask the question, what matters the most? For most complex organizations, there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of available metrics of progress, and one can be quite selective about these, but ultimately ask what matters the most and why. So, one of my clients, which I won't name, but simply say that they are a research organization where they're investing multiple billions of dollars in scientific research. And they have three very clear statements about what matters the most. Number one is, rankings. Their global rankings of research institutes. They want to be in the top 10 globally. Income. They want to show that they are able to attract investment into the types of research that they do. And most importantly, they are currently working on what they call global challenges. This is bringing research to bear on some of the really big issues of our time. One of them for example, is climate change.

Andrew Hollo (37:36): And what they are wanting to do is to say, well, we are going to expand in the next 10 years from having a very strong footprint in research from three of these challenges to 10. So, what that means, these are not flavor of the month metrics. These are durable. In 10 years time, my guess is they will still be interested in being globally ranked as one of the world's leaders, that they are a very attractive proposition for those wanting to invest in research. And thirdly, that they are addressing the preeminent issues of our day in a practical way that can be translated into genuine impact. So, my encouragement is durability matters and ask what matters the most, because what matters the most today is in many cases, what will matter the most in five or 10 years time.

Scott Harper (38:32): Great.

Pam Harper (38:33): I think that's a good point. So, here we are. We're at the end of the episode. Can you leave us with some final thoughts on the importance of leadership for the multi-stakeholder societal benefit? We all care about this.

Andrew Hollo (38:47): My final reflection, when I think about the hundreds of teams and organizations that I've had the privilege of working with is that where change for greater impact works, there are three, four, five things going on. So, use these as a bit of a checklist in your own organization. Firstly, there's usually somebody or a group who have had a fundamental insight that has sparked some kind of vision that grows to the scale of an obsession. So, find the people who care enough about something to make a stand and to, I don't know if this is an Australian expression or not, but we talk about, would you die in a ditch over it? It's that. Secondly, find the true believers. And sometimes this can be a small group. This is the grassroots occasionally who are those ground up advocates. And then thirdly, work out what you can disrupt and what you can change because business as usual is never a solution for groundbreaking change and insight.

Andrew Hollo (40:01): Fourthly, work out who your influence targets are, and now they might well be your investor community. They might be your political allies. They might be partner organizations and work out how you are going to handle predictable disbelief and criticism. That's important. And then lastly, the point I made just a moment ago is work out what matters the most and be able to distill what you are doing into a very small number of outcomes, measurable and a very small number of goals, and be able to speak to those repeatedly. Steve Jobs famously said, "Around the time that you are getting bored with repeating yourself is about the time when people are finally starting to understand."

Pam Harper (40:49): Andrew, thanks so much for being our guest on Growth Igniters Radio.

Andrew Hollo (40:52): Thanks so much, Pam and Scott I've really enjoyed the conversation.

Scott Harper (40:56): We've enjoyed it too, Andrew. And thanks to you out there for listening to Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper. To contact us and get show notes and resource links for this week's episode, go to growthignitersradio.com and select episode 207.

Pam Harper (41:12): Until next time, this is Pam Harper...

Scott Harper (41:15): And Scott Harper...

Pam Harper (41:16): Wishing you continued success and leaving you with these questions to discuss with your team:

Scott Harper (41:21): What is the societal benefit that we are committed to that will improve the global and human condition? And what new leadership conversations do we need to create with our many stakeholders that can bring this vision to life?

Chris Curran (41:39): Growth Igniters and Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper are registered service marks of Business Advancement Incorporated. All Growth Igniters Radio episodes are copyrighted productions of Business Advancement Incorporated, intended for the private use of our audience. Except as otherwise provided by copyright law, all other uses, including copying, editing, redistribution and publication without prior written consent of Business Advancement Incorporated, are prohibited. All rights reserved.