Why Leaders Need the Language of Mystery, Ambiguity, and Artistry – with Libby Wagner

Pam Harper (00:01): Have you ever felt like there are no words that can fully express what it's like to be a leader in your situation? Our guest today, Libby Wagner, shares why leaders need the language of mystery, ambiguity, and artistry to meet this challenge. Join us for episode 208 of Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper.

Chris Curran (00:30): This episode is brought to you by Business Advancement Incorporated, enabling successful leaders and companies to accelerate to their next level of success on the web at businessadvance.com. And now here's Pam and Scott.

Pam Harper (00:48): Thanks, Chris. I'm Pam Harper, founding partner and CEO of Business Advancement Incorporated, and sitting right across from me, as always, is my business partner and husband, Scott Harper. Hi, Scott.

Scott Harper (01:00): Hey there, Pam, it's always great to join you for another episode of Growth Igniters Radio. And as always, our purpose is to spark new insights, inspiration, and immediately useful ideas that can help visionary leaders accelerate themselves. And of course, their companies, to their next level of game-changing, innovation, transformation, and growth. And you know, Pam, CEOs and C-suite leaders, they all know how important it is to engage with all their stakeholders as they lead their company into uncharted territory. But sometimes they tell us that they can come up with a loss for language that can fully express the opportunities and challenges that they face, connecting others with the purpose and mission of their company.

Pam Harper (01:43): That's why we've been at the forefront of inventing phrases to describe it, think about Preventing Strategic Gridlock, the title of the book I wrote in 2003.

Scott Harper (01:54): Yes, but it's still available on Amazon.

Pam Harper (01:56): That's right. "Strategic gridlock" is the mysterious paralysis that occurs when persistent organizational problems snarl business performance.

Scott Harper (02:06): Right. And we also invented the term "Growth Igniters" to describe the successful visionary leaders who can ignite game-changing growth over and over again. That's why we named our podcast Growth Igniters Radio.

Pam Harper (02:18): Exactly. But there are so many other leadership situations that exist in the world for which we still don't have the language to help our stakeholders to connect with the business. That's why we're speaking today with Libby Wagner. A poet, speaker, and trusted advisor who works with organizations large and small and leaders across the globe to create high trust cultures, fulfilling their purpose and mission. She's the author of the Amazon best-seller, The Influencing Option: The Art of Building a Profit Culture in Business, as well as five collections of poems.

Pam Harper (02:55): Libby has been quoted in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and Harvard Business Review. Her work has shaped many organizational cultures, including Keurig Dr. Pepper, Phillips, Boeing, and many others. In fact, she's one of the only poets working in organizations, and she inspires others to access and express their leadership voices, to have courageous conversations where they balance truth-telling and compassion. You can read much more about Libby's background by going to growthignitersradio.com, episode 208 and scrolling down to her bio. Libby, welcome to Growth Igniters Radio.

Libby Wagner (03:35): Well, thank you for having me. It's so great to be here with Pam and Scott. You've been reminding me about how you should just put poets after your name and your introductions. You're already thick in the language of it all.

Scott Harper (03:51): Oh, yeah. That's great.

Pam Harper (03:52): Now coming from you, that means a lot. So let's talk about this because we really do hear quite frequently that people, they just don't have the words to talk about what's happening. But before we get to this, tell us briefly, what was the major influence that led you to your business focus?

Libby Wagner (04:14): That's such a great question because it's hard to talk about a particular major influence. I didn't start out to be a consultant or a coach or an advisor to leaders in companies. Actually, in the first half of my professional career, I was a college professor and a teacher. But when I began my work with leaders and teams, I realized that the language we used to communicate and influence and get things done was often inadequate. People were having a hard time with finding the right words, just as you all talked about before, that these leaders have a loss for language, how do we talk about what we do and who we are? And I thought that maybe I could bring this to the new business that I was creating because you don't usually have poets hanging out in the halls in most corporations.

Pam Harper (05:05): Not usually.

Libby Wagner (05:07): The ones who admit it anyway. You have some actually, but they're hiding. Yeah, they're hiding.

Pam Harper (05:12): So the biggest thing was just recognizing that, in fact, there were people who were at a loss for words, and you are the person who knows a lot of words.

Libby Wagner (05:22): Well, there's that. And, too, I think that when I was a faculty member, I had a natural talent for working with teams and groups; for helping them hear one another, for helping them get clear and be clear with one another. And so people would often ask me to come and facilitate a group. And I just didn't think it was any big deal. In 2003, I lost my sister Karen to breast cancer. And at that time I was-

Pam Harper (05:48): Oh, I'm so sorry.

Libby Wagner (05:48): Thank you. It was a really hard time. I can't even believe it's been that long. And I was a tenured college professor. There was no reason for me to leave my career. I loved what I did, but as happens to many people, when you lose someone you love, my life became luminous at the time. And I thought, am I living a creative life in the way that I want? And I took an inspired path that was not linear and ended up saying, Hey, I think I want to create a business, which was the wackiest idea ever, because I didn't have any business background.

Pam Harper (06:26): So many people these days get their start that way. I mean, back in the times when we were starting, maybe not as often, but I think that's more the path today than ever before. What do you think?

Libby Wagner (06:37): I do. I think it's about listening deeply. I mean, I did a Ted talk some time ago called Owning Your Voice. And it really was about that deep listening that it takes to become an entrepreneur and to follow a path that's uniquely yours. And I think the leaders that we all work with, they're also trying to do that kind of listening and it gets pretty noisy. And so that's another reason why it's hard to find the language that we need to talk about the issues, the problems, and the exciting things that are on the horizon for businesses and leaders.

Scott Harper (07:12): Well, that's interesting, Libby, and we've talked before and one of the things that really caught our attention, and why we're speaking today with you is you mentioned that business leaders can tap into language of mystery, ambiguity, and artistry to more fully express what's going on inside them and between other people, and what the big idea is, what the vision is. Why did you say that? Why do leaders need this type of language and why do they need it now more than ever?

Libby Wagner (07:43): Great question, Scott, and I love how you phrase that leaders need to be having these conversations within themselves and among the people that they care about, their stakeholders, right? The people inside the company, outside the company, partners, things like that. I mean, I think if we just even look at what we as a world, not just the business world, but as a world have gone through in the past two and a half years. We're all sick of hearing words like unprecedented, and extraordinary, and new normal, right? We're sick of those words, but the truth is it has been extraordinary and it would be a shame not to learn from it, not to be able to talk about what we've learned and what's happened. So right now is a really important time for people to find the language that they need to talk about the horizons of their work, the thresholds of their work.

Libby Wagner (08:33): And even I'm using those words very purposefully. Very rarely will you hear someone in a business setting talk about what is the threshold we are on. Very rarely will you hear them say, I want to invite you to be part of something innovative and creative and new. And so I think that when a leader is able first to connect with themselves about what they see, what they want, where they're going, and then to say, okay, you know what? I want to cross over this gap, this divide between me and those who need to hear my message, and I'm going to cast my net out over that. And that's what we need the language for. And the mystery, the ambiguity. I mean, we've all heard that great leaders can deal with ambiguity, right? A really good leader has a foot in the present and an eye on the horizon. But we don't know, we cannot see. I think the days of the five-year strategic plan are over. I mean, I don't know what you all think, but...

Pam Harper (09:32): Well, of course, we do. We are right there with you.

Scott Harper (09:35): ... I have a five minutes strategic plan. [laughter]

Libby Wagner (09:37): Exactly. So, think about the words, nimble, resilient, flexible, agile, all those words. And those are great words, actually. But I also think that we have to be willing to open ourselves up to a different kind of language to talk about where we're going and what we're going to do.

Scott Harper (09:58): So that requires some self-reflection, which is not in everybody's bag of tricks.

Libby Wagner (10:04): You're absolutely right. I have the great fortune for quite a few years to work with a group of scientists in the United States. And, I don't know if this is true all over the world, but in the US, we often say, "Well, it's not rocket science," except with these people, it was rocket science. And they were bright, brilliant; some Nobel prize winners. The people at the top of their game. And when I was invited to come and do a leadership project with them for several years, I remember getting the attendee list, and the first one did have two Nobel prize winners and a former Brigadier General.

Libby Wagner (10:42): And I thought, what the heck, these people don't need leadership skills, but what they did need. And what was really amazing was to place them in positions where they had to deeply reflect and assess in ways they were not ordinarily asked to. And from that they could access language that they didn't usually have. And that's that powerful place that I think when you talk about growth igniters and inspiring visions and people on the edge of those different frontiers, we've got to go to those deep places to get that.

Scott Harper (11:17): Scary, but rewarding.

Libby Wagner (11:19): Absolutely. I mean, I know you all do programs with leaders, too. And the thing that was fun about that one, in particular, was it was a two-day thing. And the first day they hated me. I felt like I had to armor up, because it was like, "We don't have time for this. What do you mean you want me to write in a journal? I'm not going to walk outside and have a meditative walk," because I was sort of pushing them to do these different kinds of things.

Pam Harper (11:45): Not business as usual.

Libby Wagner (11:47): Yeah. By the second day -- talk about secrets. The second day, people were coming up and saying, "Yeah, I used to write poetry. I don't do it anymore." "I used to play the piano, but now I don't." And so this is that whole nature of creative expression and the relationship between that and the language of leadership.

Pam Harper (12:05): That is a wonderful story. And it really illustrates the challenge, I think, for all of us, which among the things that we see is that a lot of times, top leaders, the folks at the top, the CEOs and the C-suite execs and the boards, the corporate directors. Everybody has a different understanding, a self-understanding of what they're talking about with regard to various terms. I remember one person who specifically said, "We're all about fire in the belly." And he was very clear about it. Now he knew exactly what he meant. In fact, he wrote it down and there was a whole sheet, and yet no one else understood it. And of course, now you think about going out across to other stakeholders, beyond employees, and it was hard enough with other employees. So what do we do with this? I mean, what do you do with something like this? And we'll just take it from a top line thing, and then go deeper in the second segment.

Scott Harper (13:09): ...Creating a shared understanding.

Libby Wagner (13:10): Well, I mean, the short answer is you get that person with that inspiring vision to engage in a conversation that answers this question. And what would that look like? And what would that look like? And what would that look like? And so the story underneath the fire in the belly, that's where that passion and resonance and aliveness to that person's vision comes from. And so I think the facilitated conversation, and what would that look like? That's the short answer I'd give for that.

Pam Harper (13:45): That's the short answer. And that is a perfect place for us to take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll dig deeper about that with poet, speaker, and advisor, Libby Wagner, author of the book, The Influencing Option, about applying the language of mystery, ambiguity, and artistry to help others access and express their leadership voices. Stay with us.

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Pam Harper (15:15): Welcome back to Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper, that's me, and Scott Harper. Today, Scott and I are speaking with Libby Wagner poet, speaker, author, advisor, and author of the book, The Influencing Option, about why leaders need the language of mystery, ambiguity, and artistry. Libby, tell us how people can find out more about you, your work, your books, all of this, your poetry.

Libby Wagner (15:45): Well, you can check out my website, Libby Wagner at libbywagner.com. There are lots of resources and information there. Things that you can download and listen to. And pretty soon we'll be launching the Libby library where everyone wants to go visit to find your favorite, a recording book or talk. So thanks for asking. Yeah.

Pam Harper (16:03): Plenty of resources there. And you can find more information and links to this episode by going to growthignitersradio.com, episode 208 and scroll down to resources. So in our first segment, we were sharing the ideas about the challenge of clarity as you're trying to connect in the midst of all of this ambiguity. Can you share a little bit more about this challenge because it is major, especially when we're talking about transformation and growth.

Libby Wagner (16:37): Well, so if you'll permit me for a little bit, and hopefully it doesn't end up on the cutting room floor, the editing floor, I'll talk just a little bit about poetry for a second. Poets are trying to say the unsayable, and it was actually the poet, WS Merwin, who did the research and talked about how metaphor actually, when your brain gets a metaphor, gets the connection of the comparison. You actually have this sort of rush of serotonin. It's pleasurable to go, oh, yeah, right? Because oftentimes we're talking about things that are abstract and we're trying to make that connection with someone who might be reading or listening. And if you think about it, that takes courage. It takes facilitation with language itself, with the medium, but it also takes a lot of vision. And when I think about just those qualities that I was talking about there, if you think about it, every business leader in a way is a poet, because we're trying to create something that didn't exist before.

Libby Wagner (17:41): And it isn't really something from nothing. My definition of artistry is that you take the things you've been given and you create something new with them. So if you think about that, that can be your education, your experience, an idea, an encounter you had, you take all those ideas and you put it together and you create something new. So, for example, when you all created the Growth Igniters Podcast, I'm guessing you didn't tell me, but I'm guessing you thought; you know what, wouldn't it be fun to bring these ideas together and share them because there are some common things and some new things that ambitious and inspired leaders need and want in their work and in their world? And so you created something from the things you've been... So this is a very artistic endeavor that you have embarked upon.

Pam Harper (18:29): So building on this, I want to stop a second because I like where you're going. So building on that, every guest that we have is a stakeholder. We care, we're impacting, impacted by, and we jointly then are working on this art as you're calling it. Yes?

Libby Wagner (18:50): Absolutely. Yeah. In a way, it's a community art project, right? And I get to stand on the shoulders of all those people you've interviewed before, and it's creating this body of knowledge and this body of work that is yours and uniquely yours. And that's one of the contributions that you're making to your own legacy and your own world in support of the businesses and clients that you serve.

Scott Harper (19:16): Okay. So if we can go back a little bit and deconstruct this, what I'm hearing is that, one, co-creation is huge in creating connection and opening up the new doors and the new windows and the places of our brains where we haven't gone before.

Libby Wagner (19:36): Absolutely.

Scott Harper (19:37): And the other thing is that you talked about the brain and I'm a recovering scientist.

Libby Wagner (19:45): You're a brain guy.

Scott Harper (19:47): I'm a brain guy. I've read some about neurophysiology and neuroscience. So I know just enough to be dangerous. And one of the papers I read is that everyone knows we have the thinking part of the brain, the neocortex and all this, that some people say the left brain, but it is activated when emotions happen. And it won't open up until you feel something. And you may not even know you're feeling something. It's the more primitive part of the brain that says, oh, this is interesting. Or, oh, this is intriguing. And that's what the poetry can do. And that's what the language can do. Now we have to find out, how do we tap into that?

Pam Harper (20:32): Well, wait a moment. I want to hear what Libby has to say here.

Scott Harper (20:35): Yeah.

Pam Harper (20:35): Libby, would you agree with that interpretation and are there other things? I mean, you are the expert here, you are the poet. What have you seen from your work with clients in that regard?

Libby Wagner (20:49): Well, I do think Scott's right, though. And I think, one of the things I was reviewing and taking a look at was the article that you all wrote about the paradoxes, the growth igniters paradoxes. And I love that actually, because of course all poets that exist coexistence in opposites, we can't help ourselves. But part of what you were talking about was people seeing, okay, here's a great idea. Okay, that makes sense. Okay, here, we've got the data, but I'm pushing against it or I'm dragging my feet, or I'm sabotaging, or I don't want to go. But then being able to engage someone's emotion, someone's passion, someone's excitement creates that connection. And here's the vision I would give you. When I went to poetry school, it's a thing, right? So I was at Poetry Workshop. I had this Irish professor named James McCauley who just passed away and he was amazing.

Libby Wagner (21:43): I can't even do a really good Irish accent, so I won't try, but he would draw these two stick figures on the board, remember chalk, we had chalk, right? Okay. So he would draw these two stick figures on the board and he would say, he would label. One is the poet and one is the audience. And he would say, "When you speak across the gap, you're casting this net out." And the question is, he would say, "Why was this poem uttered?" And when I think about it from a business comparison, it's like, okay, I have a product or a service I want to put in the world. I have this great idea or this vision or this thing, this dream.

Libby Wagner (22:22): And I want people to respond to it in the way that I would want, right? Either buy in or collaborate, or purchase or whatever it is. And so I've got to cross that divide that currently exists between me and them. So how do I do it? How do I close the gap? And so some of it, I think is absolutely through emotional connection, and that is conveyed through language, that is conveyed through the stories and the storytelling and language that's provocative and interesting and inviting. And I think that we have savvy people in the world and more information than we could ever use. And so it's very easy just to hear that noise, the noisiness, and ignore what's being said.

Pam Harper (23:04): That's so true. And the other thing I want to bring up, and I'm sure you can build on this, is that language can sound like a fuzzy furry thing; ambiguity and all that. But what you do has top and bottom line outcomes, business outcomes, can you actually trace then how language would do that?

Libby Wagner (23:30): Absolutely. I mean, a lot of the work that I do is really about creating high performance, high trust cultures. And because we know that when employees are highly engaged, they outperform others by 400%. So if you think about that, and I know this, I'm speaking to the choir here, but when you think about that, the idea that if I am engaged and I feel a sense of belonging and all the other indicators, we know that help an employee be engaged, that has a direct impact on our bottom line and top line longevity, turnover. All those things that can eat away at our profitability, or, if we're a nonprofit, our ability to meet our mission.

Libby Wagner (24:13): I always say that turnover is the leaky hole in the boat. You think it's not costing you anything, it's costing you a lot. And so when we think about language, what we do is we identify indicators that are specifically related to leader behaviors, leader language, leader messaging, and then we can track those in performance metrics and also engagement metrics. So, the fact that I would get to talk about poetry and metrics in the same podcast is pretty cool. Although if you get really nerdy, you actually do check the meter of poems and you can measure and all that stuff, so.

Pam Harper (24:53): Well, that's true. Well, the people who are listening are looking for ways to keep growing their businesses, their companies. And this whole idea that we need to engage the emotional part as much as the logical part, it all works together. So we're going to take another quick break. And when we come back, Scott and I will speak more with poet, speaker, and advisor, Libby Wagner, author of the book, The Influencing Option about immediately useful ideas for applying new language for leadership. Stay with us.

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Scott Harper (25:30): You are listening to Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper. We're brought to you by Business Advancement Incorporated, where we focus on enabling visionary leaders to dramatically increase momentum for game-changing results. We're on the web at businessadvance.com.

Pam Harper (25:45): Have you ever wondered if so many CEOs think it's important to lead for business transformation and long term growth in a rapidly changing world, why can it be so challenging to break the orbit of the status quo? As an author and advisor to visionary CEOs who often face mysterious pushback to their big ideas, that was the question that sent me on a long search for answers. So what's the secret of the great leaders? The successful visionary leaders, I call growth igniters, the ones who are able to ignite game-changing business growth over and over again, what's their secret? They're able to embrace the leadership paradoxes that can naturally emerge in uncharted territory. How do they do this? That's what I share in my keynote, how growth igniters lead for tomorrow, starting today.

Scott Harper (26:36): Go to pamharperspeaks.com today to find out more about Pam's keynote and her availability to speak at your next leadership conference.

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Pam Harper (26:54): Welcome back to Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper. Over the last two segments, Scott and I have been speaking with poet speaker, and advisor, Libby Wagner, author of the book, The Influencing Option, about the power of the language of mystery, ambiguity, and artistry in leadership. Libby, remind us how people can find out more about you, your work, and your books.

Libby Wagner (27:20): You can find out about me and my work at Libby Wagner, at libbywagner.com. That's my email and just libbywagner.com for that website information.

Pam Harper (27:29): And you can find out more information and links for this episode by going to growthignitersradio.com, episode 208, and scroll down to resources. So here we are. We're at the part of the episode where we always talk about the three immediately useful ideas. And in this case, it's for applying new language for leadership.

Scott Harper (27:50): I disagree, but how do we put them to use.

Pam Harper (27:52): Okay, Libby, you get it. Let's start out with a practical idea for how leaders can create new language that's right for them. I mean, you can have new words, but I was talking earlier in this episode about how there was a disconnect for one leader.

Libby Wagner (28:09): Absolutely. And so just right in your phrase, there is a word we need, which is connect. And so if we think about it, an idea for how to strengthen and deepen our language is to answer the following questions. How can we say this? Whatever it is about our product, service, vision, whatever we're doing, how can we say this in a way that demonstrates who we are, what we believe, and how we differentiate ourselves? I mentioned earlier the question and what would that look like? I spent so much time with people who are not specific enough. It really is the thing. Honestly, I used to say to people, if I was a tattoo person, I would have, be specific tattooed on my forehead because it would just save me a lot of time. But I think a very first practical step is how can we say this in a way, and what does that look like?

Scott Harper (29:04): So building on that, people will adopt phrases or ideas or mottos, visions, and sometimes they fall flat. So do you have a practical idea for keeping language from turning into jargon that people go, eh.

Pam Harper (29:20): The buzzword bingo.

Libby Wagner (29:22): Well, okay. So here's the funny thing about jargon. Jargon has a cousin, it's called cliche. And the thing about cliches is they used to be good, fresh ideas. And so did jargon, right? Jargon like that. It was like somebody said that and then people thought, oh my gosh, that's it. That's how you say it, right? And then it gets used and overused and overused. And so I think the way that we do it is through retelling the story. And so if you think about, I'm just going to give you an example, bless Jim Collins' heart, we've worn out on the bus, right? On the bus, and the right seats on the bus. Everyone's tired of hearing about that, but in the beginning, that was pretty good, right?

Libby Wagner (30:04): So what are other ways that we could talk about being connected, going in the same direction, collectively creating; what are other ways we can say that? And so, again, what's the story under that is a question I would ask. And the reason I'm answering you with questions is that I actually believe the answers to the mysterious, ambiguous language, the way that we could get more clear it's all in the organization already. We're just not asking the right questions. So we use beautiful questions to open things up, to get people, to talk about things in new ways.

Scott Harper (30:44): And of course, we have to talk to the right people, because sometimes we talk to the same people over and over. New perspectives can give amazing new ideas.

Pam Harper (30:52): I want to jump in here too, because this whole thing about jargon.

Scott Harper (30:57): Yeah.

Pam Harper (30:57): Sometimes isn't jargon really the only, something that has become jargon, really the only way that you can truly express something that's going on, that's unique to your company? I mean, I've heard people say things and the problem is that we're not sharing it with everybody. It becomes a click.

Scott Harper (31:17): In group and out group.

Pam Harper (31:18): I could be wrong. What do you think?

Libby Wagner (31:20): Well, I mean, like I said, I think jargon is initially useful, but what happens is if we are never sort of breathing life into the language that we're using it to describe what we're doing and how we're doing it, then it just becomes white noise. No one's hearing it. No one's getting it. I mean, Dean Hamish used to say, I love this. He'd say to leaders, "If they're not mocking you, you haven't said it enough." And so I love that, right? Because it means that people have begun to internalize the concepts of that particular leader's vision. And we want that. We want the internalization, but we also want it to mean something. So there's a sweet spot in there. But back to what you said, Pam, we created jargon because it was something that was hard to say in the beginning. And so the question is, what's the other way to say it? How can we refresh this?

Pam Harper (32:13): Okay. So let's go to another practical idea for ensuring clarity and understanding as you cultivate this new language.

Libby Wagner (32:23): Well, I've got two ideas that are going to seem weird maybe, but that's okay. You all strike me as being a little weird. So that'll be all right.

Pam Harper (32:31): Absolutely.

Scott Harper (32:31): Oh, bless your heart.

Libby Wagner (32:32): In the best way. In the best way, right? Okay. So I actually think that cultivating new and refreshing language to talk about things that we haven't talked about before, we must first start with ourselves. And so I issue a challenge to each leader to do two of the following things. One is read things you don't ordinarily read. Read things that don't have anything to do with business. Read novels, read poetry, read nonfiction, read history. Because what happens is then you're filling up your language well with words you're not ordinarily using, and you then have stories to tell that are not about the ordinary things. I feel very strongly about this. I'm sure you can hear it in my language, but read other stuff.

Libby Wagner (33:20): That's the short version. And then the second thing is, I strongly believe because I've worked with so many leaders across many, many things in using a journal as a tool, and there's something called proprioceptive writing. If you want this data and the science around it, they've investigated that and looked at that for a very long time. But I always, when I work with clients, they get a journal and we write with a pen in it because there's a different kinesthetic relationship when we are trying to find language for something. I mean, linguistics is crazy anyway, right? We try to find a word to describe something that can't be described. And so I would start there because the more clear you are as a leader, the more you can model and bridge the language that you need to be innovative and creative and ignite those ideas and inspiration in others.

Pam Harper (34:12): Okay. Just a point of clarity here. You say pen, what if somebody wants to do this on their laptop or their iPad or their phone or?

Libby Wagner (34:21): Yeah, no. I'm glad you asked that. I'm glad you asked that. Okay, it's better than nothing, but I will say to you; pen, and paper. There's a different kinesthetic relationship that we have with our muscles, with our body, because writing is an embodied thing. And again, it isn't that there's anything wrong with keyboarding. You think differently when you use a keyboard than when you use your hand. And many writers will tell you they write long hand first, then they type it.

Scott Harper (34:48): Yeah, it activates different parts of the brain.

Pam Harper (34:52): It does. Well, here we are. We're at the end of the episode. Libby, can you leave us with some final thoughts on how leaders can apply the language of mystery, ambiguity, and artistry to the growth of their business, their company?

Libby Wagner (35:07): I think the most important, beautiful question you can ask yourself as a leader is, what's uniquely mine to do? And your quest really is to define that; maybe it's to define it daily, hourly, yearly, whatever it is. The more clear you are with that, the more access you will have to your own language, and the more you can inspire it in others. And when we're able to do that, we get access to all of that wisdom, creativity, and artistry, and innovation that's there in your organization waiting to come out.

Pam Harper (35:40): Yes. Well, Libby, thank you so much for being our guest on Growth Igniters Radio.

Libby Wagner (35:45): Well, it has been my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

Scott Harper (35:48): Oh, thanks, Libby. And thanks again to all of you out there for listening to Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper. To contact us, get show notes, and resource links for this week's episode, go to growthignitersradio.com, and select episode 208.

Pam Harper (36:03): Until next time. This is Pam Harper.

Scott Harper (36:05): And Scott Harper.

Pam Harper (36:06): Wishing you continued success and leaving you with this question to consider and discuss with your team.

Scott Harper (36:11): How can we tap into the language of mystery, ambiguity, and artistry for ourselves to better connect with each other and with all of our stakeholders?

Chris Curran (36:26): Growth Igniters and Growth Igniters Radio with Pam Harper and Scott Harper are registered service marks of Business Advancement Incorporated. All Growth Igniters Radio episodes are copyrighted productions of Business Advancement Incorporated intended for the private use of our audience. Except as otherwise provided by copyright law, all other uses including copying, editing, redistribution, and publication without prior written consent of Business Advancement Incorporated, are prohibited. All rights reserved.